Aron9000

I don't feel like we've had a proper debate about the automatic vs manual transmission in a while around here.

For smaller/lower horsepower cars, give me a manual any damn day of the week. I just got done on a 520 mile road trip from Nashville to Atlanta in my SC300/5 speed manual. I really don't know why people fuss about driving a stick, as I sat in traffic for a damn good while in Atlanta, took me about 1 hour 15 minutes to drive from Acworth to downtown Atlanta, 3 damn wrecks on I75, about 30 miles. I guess for some people its annoying to operate the clutch and constantly change gears, because you can't update your facebook, eat a big mac, sip your latte, read a book, review a construction invoice, call Miguel to see we were paid and god forbid drive at the same time.

On the way back home, I took a detour at the Resca exit, drove 2 lane route 136 through rural Georgia. That route involves going up and down John's Mountain, more of a big hill, then you go up Lookout Mountain. I stopped at Cloudland Canyon State Park at the top of Lookout mountain and hiked for 5 hours, then got back on the road, went down Lookout Mountain, drove through Trenton GA, back up Sand Mountain(which is more of a plateau like Lookout Mountain) and then back down to wind up at the Tennessee River near South Pittsburgh TN. Went back up Monteagle on 2 lane 156, down again on 2 lane Rt 41.

Needless to say, lots of curves, lots of elevation change, lots of uphill and downhill grades. I would have been driven mad with an automatic car on this route(and stuck with the interstate) it was just so much easier to select my own damn gear and stick with it, at least IMO I can do a much better job selecting a damn gear on a grade and around a switchback than an automatic transmission computer. I think my main obsession with the manual gearbox is that I've finally mastered it. I can heel/toe downshift that SC300(or hell my Tacoma as well) like a pro racing driver. I don't like to speed shift my truck since it has no tach and a rather long throw shifter, but man the Lexus, I can bang gears real quick without grinding or lurching the drivetrain.

There is just a certain satisfaction of developing a skill that you just do not get with a 2 pedal transmission, no matter if its an old school indestructible torque converter automatic GM TH400 for your drag car or that dual clutch sequential box on your Ferrari that can bang off a quicker shift than me with a clutch.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

Manual>Auto in driving fun, miss my 97' SC300 5-Speed...

Aron9000

That 1997 SC300 was a rare breed, one of 120 produced for that year.

That being said, I love my 1992 SC300, it isn't that quick off the line, but man once you pass 40mph in 2nd gear it pulls like hell up to about 120mph. Just keep those revs above 4k and man it sings.

mmarshall

Part of what you say is correct, but today's paddle-shift and bump-lever automatics, if programmed correctly, will shift quicker and more efficiently than a traditional 3-pedal manual, without wearing your left leg and knee out on the clutch in heavy traffic. Your knees may still be in good shape, but that is not the case with everyone. Automatics, though, may or may not rob some mileage and HP/torque, depending on their specific design, final-drive ratio, number of gears, and other factors.

Stroock639

i think having a manual car is awesome but you can't deny that less effort is required to drive an automatic. having said that i think everyone should have to take their road test in a manual car. if anything we'll have fewer people driving and those that are driving will be better drivers as a result. but yes as you've stated there's that certain "man and machine" interaction that can only be gotten with a manual car, and it's nice to be able to have complete control over the transmission.

SW17LS

Sure they're fun, but for everyday driving I have no interest.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I like a clutch for nostalgia sake, but with Bay Area traffic, Auto only for me.

mmarshall

That's just it, though. You can have that with today's paddle-shift and bump-lever auto-manuals, if they are designed correctly.

SW17LS

Generally if you miss a gear or hold a gear too long the computer will take over with these systems. Not truly 100% in control.

mmarshall

True, but, on the other hand, who would want to go past red-line, particularly with a brand-new engine breaking-in, and possibly damage it? And warranty coverage does not cover clear abuse.

Remember the Hot-Wheels-like 2000 Toyota Celica GT-S.....the one with the Honda-style, high-HP/low torque, 1.8L VTEC high-revving four that had a redline almost as high as the stratospheric one on the Honda S2000? I saw several trashed, almost brand-new engines from Celica GTS's that year in the service bay of my local Toyota shop (I owned a previous-genenration 1995 Celica ST myself, and loved it, even though it had a low-powered Corolla engine). When I asked what had ruined brand-new engines so quickly (and especially from usually reliable Toyota), the Techs told me young kids, who had recently bought them with manuals, trying to drag-race and and regularly running the RPMs up even past the already high redline.

wander

No question that the computer can do it better / faster / smoother than I can. Given the choice , 100% manual for me. I just enjoy the process that much more with I can do the shifting . I can still fondly recall the first time I nailed heel-toe downshifts in my 81 280 zx. My last DD with three pedals was a 06 Mini Cooper S and I miss the interaction of having a manual . That said, the absolutly spoiling comfort of my 05 LS 430 in Atlanta traffic would be a hard thing to give up. I believe that falls under the "uptowm problems" category....

Dave600hL

Just curious as to if engines these days need to be broken in? I have not heard one manufacture give directions like they used to for the first 1-2000 miles?

mmarshall

Yep.....electrons travel at the speed of light. Last time I checked, human hands and feet couldn't.


Double-clutching and heel/toe shifts, though (which, of course, is done to even out RPMs and save wear on the synchros), are more than just a function of simply "nailing it". The gas and brake pedal design and location (plus the size/shape of one's feet/shoes) are all factors in how easy or difficult it is to heel-and-toe. In general, the closer the gas/brake pedals are to each other, and the more even their foot-heights, the easier it will be to do.

One feature that I liked on the Nissan 370Z's manual transmission (I did a full-review on a manual-370Z) was a computer device that auto-matched the engine revs on downshifts, both to get smoother downshifts and save wear on the synchros for those who had a hard time mastering the technique. It was liked by a number of 370Z buyers, but, not surprisingly, frowned on by purists....it could be turned off if desired.

mmarshall

Due to the better production-tolerances and precision assembly of today, a long formal 1000-mile break-in is not as critical as it was years ago (brand-new engines don't have quite as much friction). But a number of manufacturers (and many service-techs) still recommend taking it easy for the engine and brakes for a few hundred miles..that means no towing, no red-lining the engine (4000-45000 RPM max), no full-force use of the throttle or brakes except in an emergency to avoid an accident, and try to keep the engine speed varying a little...no long stretches of road at exactly the same engine-speed. I know, however, that there are those on this forum that feel otherwise (there have been some heated discussions on it), and opinions do vary.

But, yes, the days of feather-footing it for 1000 miles or more, and of early first oil-changes to get all of the break-in metal-shavings out, are pretty much gone.

MattyG

Yeah, a modern auto-box or a semi-auto for me too. They are just way too efficient and that much better at shifting compared to a human driver's clutch pedal to gear shift lever moves. I don't mind some fun with a nice three pedal car but it would be for the visceral fun of driving such a car as a hobby vehicle.

Aron9000's SC is a classic fun car and Toyota always made some sweet smooth manual cars/clutches. But you could do a Honda S2000, Mazda Miata, Acura NSX or any flavor of BMW from a certain era, absolutely. But in city traffic or commuting, not so much. I think there's a reason why you do not see car commercials with guys flicking gear shifters around and pushing the clutch and racing up to redline.

There's also a reason why Formula 1 went to a semi-automatic transmission - lightning quick shifts and the driver has no clutch pedal to operate. Same goes for mass transit buses... all automatic. Big rigs are still running real manual transmissions but that's mostly due to cost of repairs and being able to haul a heavy payload while giving the driver some flexibility. But short haul trucks like 3 and 5 ton are automatic. Big motorhomes? Automatic.