If we're being technical, the Avalon has always been based on the stretched Camry platform. The 6th gen ES is now also based on this same stretched platform. Prior, it was not. That is all...

 

The LS is the better car for sure, but with that age gap I would get the ES no question.

The LS is a complex car, and while its a very reliable car there are some common issues with that era car, control arms, ML audio amps, etc. A 2007 car is going on 10 years old, the ES is just going on 4...lots more life left in the ES.

The LS is more substantial than the ES, better riding, more refined, quieter, Interior will be a sharp downgrade in the ES vs the LS, but the age difference makes it a no brainer.

As for the RWD LS and snow. My AWD LS is great in the snow, but my RWD LS400 and LS430 were terrible in the snow on all season tires. I can't imagine why the 460 RWD would be different.

 

The Ls looks like an much more expensive car next to the Es. Different class all together and rides much better. But requires a few replacement parts to keep in top shape.

 

thank you all for the feedback and input....very interesting and helpful. I am in South Florida (hence the screen name) so not worried about ever driving in snow. On another note, most interesting thing was that so many people mentioned reliability and repair issues with the LS...considering I mentioned that I would get one at around 55k-70k miles and selling at around 100k-130k. Just surprised that those would be a enough of a concern with a Lexus LS at those miles. I've had 3 ES series and didn't have any issues at all until I go around 170k....and the LS is supposed to be the most reliable car.

 

The ES is a very reliable car. In my 2004 ES 330, I changed the timing belt and water pump, transmission fluid, coolant, power steering fluid. That car is good for another 100,000 miles.

 

It's not only mileage, it's age. It's a very reliable car but it's going on 10 years old. Nothing lasts forever, especially in the FL heat. The LS is also a higher end car, with a more sophisticated suspension, etc, parts are more expensive than the ES that shares most of those components with the Camry.

If we were comparing a 2010 or 2011 LS and a 2013 ES my advice might be different. But that's a big age gap.

 

age and miles really aren't a huge deal when talking about an LS. mine is 17 years old with 142,000 miles and it runs absolutely perfectly. the biggest factors are whether or not maintenance has always been done, and how aggressively it was driven. assuming that the LS 460 you're looking at has been driven and maintained responsibly, that car should have another 10 trouble free years in it at least. having driven both, and as others have said, the LS really is a different league. and as long as you put good snow tires on it during the winter, it'll have no problem in the snow. also if handling matters even just a little bit to you, RWD is way awesomer than FWD.

the LS will no doubt be more expensive to keep on the road, but it's worth the extra money. and yes, this new ES is based on the avalon, but what's the avalon based off of? (the camry) but seriously don't let a few years worry you when you're talking about an LS, they're unbelievably well built cars. even a 20 year old one still feels way higher quality than most brand new cars. plus it rides, shifts, and delivers the power about 20x more smoothely than almost anything else, even cars that cost more than it. i mean come on, it's got a V8! even getting a 2006 LS would be a good move.

 

Bear in mind the 460 has a lot more technology than your 400...

 

$20k for a 10yr old car is insane. That's without a warranty to boot. That's 10yrs of usage where you have no idea how it was maintained or treated. No matter how well built or reliable it is, its still glass, metal and plastic. If you need a car right now, the ES is a better buy.

 

I'd take the LS all day long. Better car overall, better presence on the road (comparatively speaking). You just need to be sure of it's maintenance history.

 

I would choose the ES350 based on what SW15LS has stated, and also the lack of warranty.

The 2013 ES350 still has a factory warranty of 4 years/50k bumper-to-bumper warranty(if you can find the date of first use), and 6 years/70k miles powertrain warranty. For me, its nice to have that peace of mind, because if any repairs come up with the LS460, it won't be cheap. The age of it will push me away, because gaskets, bushings, or anything rubber related will deteriorate no matter what kind of car it is.

 

Not exactly, if it has lower mileage then it will be fine. But there is very little justification in pumping $20K into something that is 9 years old.

Good choice on the 13 ES, more interesting styling, new platform, newer tech like remote touch (if you like remote touch), and it still has a warranty

 

We're of the same opinion here, but this statement makes no sense. You're saying he's wrong for being concerned about the physical age of parts, because "if it is lower mileage it will be fine" yet you say "there is little justification for pumping $20k into a 9 year old car". If "it will be fine" and the physical age of components and parts is not a concern...then why does purchasing a 9 year old car for $20k make no sense? You're basically saying age doesn't matter. In that case the LS is a better car.

 

I was in the same boat about six months ago, I own an 07 LS460 and was considering going to a newer ES350, my reasoning was ...I drive a lot, there was fuel savings to consider, repairs, etc.

I ended up test driving a brand new ES350 and lets just say that they're two totally different cars. The LS has power to spare and it's smooth and quiet. The ES seemed like it had a hard time getting going, which I was surprised about, I figured...modern V6...brand new car, but instead it felt like just a normal car, nothing special. The LS is just effortless...you want power? Just step on the gas. You want to pass two cars? No problem. The ES felt like my Honda Accord.

I like the way the new ES looks. I liked the interior, and the backseat room was pretty decent, but it doesn't drive like an LS. As far as the LS goes...I wish I could put regular fuel in it, but it is averaging 27 mpg for me, which is unbelievable. And as far as repairs go, in 129,000 miles the only things that have failed is a wheel bearing and $600 dollars worth of control arms. That's it. If I have to put a water pump in it at some point, or a strut, those are things I can live with when I drive 30,000 miles a year. However if major mechanical issues creep up? I'll be moving on, but knock on wood, so far so good.

But from a practical standpoint, if I was faced with paying the exact amount of money for a 07 LS and a 2013 ES, I'd go with the ES. The ES should give you 100,000 miles of trouble free driving. The LS could bite you with a couple unexpected $1,500 dollar repairs at this stage of its life. I'm not in that boat, I'd have to spend somewhere around another $8,000-$10,000 do buy a 2013 ES350 in my area. Right now in my area my 07 LS460 is only worth around $13,000....used 2013 ES 350's with 60,000 miles are going for $22,000-$24,000.

 

Completely agree with this and went with an 06 LS over a 13 ES, so of course I would rather have an 07 LS over any ES! Wasn't clear if you were considering an 07 460 or 460L. Either would be a no brainer, IMHO. We do appreciate what the ES offers and still have our 06 ES330, but the 13 ES doesn't even have real leather, it's NuLuxe synthetic (but is good enough to fool many, myself included). In some regards, I don't feel a 13 ES holds up against our 06 ES, let alone an LS.

Yes, the 13 ES (and Avalon platform) provide just as much legroom as an 06 LS/SWB 07 LS, but the better LS ride, quietness, and execution on the road just can't be denied. Granted, the 13 ES has a higher-resolution screen and more responsive NAV but its V6 is relatively louder and just doesn't have the low-end torque of the V8. You will feel the difference if you load the car up with passengers and gear. The LS never seems to lack power. To me, an 07 still looks modern inside and out and, since many new technologies are pioneered on the LS, it doesn't really lack too much compared to options available in a brand new vehicle. We literally shared your dilemma and went with an even older LS in a heartbeat (at the time though the 13 ES was twice the cost of our 06 LS). The only reason I would recommend you get a 13 ES is so I can get the 07 LS. Happy shopping, it's a great problem to have.