SW17LS

I was driving along yesterday and I was behind a horrid mid 90s Buick Regal sporting Maryland "Historic" tags (in MD anything that is 20 years old can wear Historic tags):



Contrast that to yesterday evening as I passed a high spec Mazda 6 and was caught off guard by its very cool grill surround LED lighting at night:



This comparison, along with the fact that I've been watching a lot of these MotorWeek "RetroReviews" on YouTube lately got me thinking about something. A lot of us complain about the state of the auto industry today. Smaller less refined engines, powertrains and transmission gearing focusing more on fuel economy than on driving enjoyment, the proliferation of hybrids, etc. But...when you look at the sort of cars everyday people had access to in the 80s and 90s:













Compared to the sorts of family cars people have access to today:









I think short of perhaps the 50s and 60s we're living in a time when ordinary people have access to cars that have more style, expression, driving enjoyability and build quality than at any time in the past...all in all when you think about it makes it a pretty good time to be a car enthusiast...

Stroock639

i don't like it, makes my LS seem less significant lol...

my main problem with modern cars is how needlessly bloated and electronics-laden they've become. stylistically they look cool but that's just frivolousness. same goes for the big wheels that look "cool" but are literally worse in just about every other way, apart from maybe handling. just look at the back windows on the mazda vs every single car above it, they're so damn tiny!!! and these tiny windows are on EVERYTHING now, i can't stand them.

these are just average cars of the people, why do they need to look so good? i doubt most of the people who buy them actually care all that much, and it comes at a price of reduced visibility and ride quality. "enthusiasts" want simplicity, lightness, directness, and feelings of communication from the controls. the modern car is very far from any of these. but, they look nicer.

i swear having the Lexus has rapidly aged me haha... but every time i get into a new car after LSing around i just find myself getting frustrated with the direction that modern cars are going. you got the ignition button that you have to put your foot on the brake in order to use, now even the shifters themselves are being replaced with buttons... i don't want it. i'd happily take that early 90s camry over just about any car currently for sale.

SW17LS

Its the truth! The gap between mainstream cars and luxury cars is closer than its been in my memory. You sit in something like an ES or a C Class or 3 Series and then you sit in a loaded Mazda 3 and it makes you think...

You miss my point. The point specifically is that its a great thing that car manufacturers are making mainstream cars with this trend towards style, substance and quality. Its a good thing for the industry in general. If that wasn't what consumers were showing that they want, thats not what we would see.

I'm happy to see carmakers not designing for the lowest common denominator.

Enthusiasts come in all shapes and sizes. I'm an enthusiast certainly and my preferences are not as you describe. What is of the most value to consumers in a car is evolving, and features and technology are a huge part of that.

The point is that someone who has $20,000 to spend can go out and buy themselves a car that is not only practical, but will also be beautiful, well made, feature rich, feel premium and be something they can genuinely enjoy owning. To me thats really exciting.

You have to put your foot on the brake to turn the key to start your LS400 too. Keyless entry and start is one of my favorite new car features. I don't like at all the button shifter thing though.

I think you'd be in the minority there lol

Stroock639

lol i know, i'm well aware that what i look for in a car is generally the complete opposite of what the average consumer wants. and not to be too pedantic but i don't have to touch the brake pedal to start my car. i have to in order to go from park into drive, but even then i could just press the shift lock override button (not something you see anymore) and do it without ever pressing the brake.

the average person (at least my age) is foremost concerned with whether or not the car has some sort of aux/USB capability and an automatic transmission. if there's any singular 'modification' i see being made to an older car it's the addition of some sort of ipod connectivity. most people just use their phone for navigation too. people just wanna get in, plug in their phone to the audio system, put it in D and be off. and i speak from much observation.

it's definitely a good thing for the automakers to want their cars to look nice. artistic value is something that can be appreciated by everyone, regardless of whether or not they have a clue what torque vectoring is. i just don't think style (for an average everyday car at least) should ever take priority over aspects like outward visibility or ruining your tire on a pothole because it's so low profile.



i mean god damn just look at the blind spots these days!

SW17LS

I don't recall being able to start our LS400 without putting my foot on the brake. In any event, thats likely because I always get in the car and put my foot on the brake when I start the car, have done that as long as I've been driving a car.

As for the shift lock override button, do you mean the shifter release button under the little cover next to the shifter? My LS460 has that in the same location as the LS400 did...as does our Sedona. Cars still have that.

In any event, thats a lot of effort to go through to avoid putting ones foot on the brake.

You picked the worst example, a car that never sold and is no longer offered for sale.

Modern technology makes blind spots less of an issue. Blind spot monitoring, cross traffic alert, backup cameras, surround view monitors. Until you live with a car thats has this tech you don;t fully realize how much it revolutionizes the driving experience, and going back to a car without these technologies is really hard. For instance, I maneuver our enormous Sedona minivan around without ever looking behind me. Theres no point, I can see much more in the wide angle surround view cameras, and the cross traffic alert makes backing out of a parking space much safer and easier than it was in a vehicle with no blind spots:



All this is technology if you asked me 3 years ago if I wanted I would have said no, I don't need that. But now that I have it, it improves the driving experience tremendously. I miss that surround view camera when I drive the LS.

This sort of tech allows carmakers to present better more daring designs without compromising safety.

As for tires. The LS430 18s on your LS400 are just as low profile if not moreso than many of these tires...and modern tire construction has helped avoid a lot of blowout type scenarios (I haven't had a flat tire in probably 10 years). You decided yourself to abandon more comfortable and more secure thick sidewall 60 series tires on 16" wheels for a lowered suspension, bigger wheels and thinner tires...not sure how you can find fault with the industry moving in the same direction you yourself have chosen.

Improving technology helps them create better cars, and a return to a little style over substance is a good thing. As car people we want people to not fall into the mentality of cars as just a transportation appliance. We want the American family to be excited about a new car again.

Stroock639

well the ZDX was just the most extreme example I thought of right then, but it's not just that. and yes blind spot monitoring and surround view systems help immensely but the lack of a huge blind spot might help even more. I've driven cars that have both of these and without them you really suffer. but to me they're just solutions to issues that don't need to exist.

and I still have 45 profile tires, that's not too bad. if they made the ride quality crap I wouldn't have kept them but it's still very smooth and I like that my car is just that little bit more unique. those were also optional wheels so you could've still gotten fatter 17" tires.

SW17LS

You need to drive a car every day that has these technologies to appreciate them. Honestly...my cars could have no windows at all out the back. Even in the LS, the backup camera is so wide angle that I can see more through it than I could by looking behind me with no blind spots.

Its not the sort of thing you can appreciate on a test drive, you have to live with the technology enough for your instinctive behavior to adapt to having it. I was resistant too, but having this stuff really does change how you drive.

All these cars have 45 series tires or larger...its exactly the same situation. These wheels are all also optional wheel packages and you can select higher profile tires.

FYI, for 2006 the 18s were the standard tire on the LS430. Its very rare to find a 2005 without them also.

Anyways these options are just providing car buyers with the ability to select options you had to go aftermarket to get from the factory...which is cool.

mmarshall

Good thread, SW15LS.

Having learned to drive on cars with balky carburetors that continually ****ed-up during cold/wet starts, recirculating-ball steering with slop/free-play across the middle, plow-ahead handling, rattles and wind-noise, brakes that faded out with use and/or when they got wet, crappy AM radio that was full of static, even worse speaker-quality, lack of air/conditioning, ineffective cooling systems, higher oil-consumption, breaker-point ignition systems with tune-ups every 6-12 months, batteries/starter-motors that often wouldn't crank below 10 degrees or so, poor rust-proofing, the top-layer of the non-clearcoat paint jobs coming off and staining your rag (and hand) every time you used a wax/cleaner, lousy incandescent sealed-beam headlights, lousy winter traction from the (mostly) front-engine/RWD designs, and a number of other deficiencies compared to today's vehicles, I can certainly appreciate the advancements made over the years. And, in most cases, I definitely wouldn't trade today's vehicles for yesterday's. But, as you and Stroock639 have pointed out, today's vehicles DO have some deficiencies. The video-screens and electronics have become far too complex for some drivers. In general, the vehicles of decades ago had better visibility out, taller rooflines with better headroom, easier rear-seat entry/exit for tall persons, softer, more plush seating (though without the lateral-support one has now), more space-efficiency inside, and ........(something important in my book).......smoother rides on rough surfaces from the higher-profile tires and smaller wheels, even with today's electronically-adjustable suspensions. The stylists are also doing some vehicles today, are are, IMO, quite ugly.....Stroock posted a good example with the ZDX.

If I had to list the three overall best advances on today's cars, though, I'd say (in this order) electronic fuel-injection, electronic ignition systems, and FWD/AWD for winter. Those alone are probably worth trading in Old Betsy for.

mmarshall

With 45s (and even on some higher-profile tires), all else equal, you will often notice a smoother, less-jarring ride with them on a warm or hot day, particularly if the car has been sitting in the sun. That's because, while the heat inside the tires does increase air-pressure (roughly 1 PSI for every 10 degrees), it softens up the rubber in the tire as well, giving it more bump-absorption. This softening up of the tire itself that the heat causes (and the thinning out of the hydraulic fluid inside the shocks) leads to a noticeably softer ride during the summer.

(That may not be the case with ALL vehicles, but it has indeed been the case with a number of he cars I've owned or sampled)

SW17LS

I thought you'd like it

As for tires and ride, I think manufacturers are getting a handle on striking the right balance. Newer cars always seem to ride better on lower profile tires than older cars...overall these mainstream cars are so much more refined and premium feeling the difference in ride because of lower profile tires gets ignored because overall the drive of the car is so much better.

TangoRed

I actually credit Hyundai for really kicking this into high gear. The 2011 Sonata really brought styling zeal to the masses.

SW17LS

Yeah it did, Mazdas too though, as far back as the early to mid 2000s the Mazda 3 was a very appealing, well built, high contented car at a low price point (navigation, HID lights, etc).

I saw a new refreshed Passat the other day and thought it too was very sharp, feels a lot like an Audi:

Stroock639

FYI I've done 1000's of miles in a 2014 MDX that has blind spot monitors and I definitely appreciate having them when I'm using that car. however I still would rather be able to actually see what's there even though the blind spot system does do a pretty adequate job. but it isn't perfect and you still have to pay extra for them. they're also bundled in with the tech package, so you're paying even more for things you might not necessarily want just to make up for the problem that regulations and poor design have caused.

now a backup camera is one thing I'd like to have in my car but that'd mean the addition of some sort of display which I don't want, so I'd settle for just the beeping sensors.

SW17LS

Did that MDX have cross traffic alert? The BSM is just the surface. To me the real challenge with poor visibility is when backing out of parking spaces, backing into parking spaces, low speed maneuvers. The cross traffic and the backup camera is big, but what is really huge is the surround view camera. The parking sensors are all well and good, but the surround view camera really diminishes the need for them. I use that surround view camera even when maneuvering forward in the Sedona.

Taking the cross traffic alert to the next level, some companies now have technology that when it senses an oncoming vehicle or a pedestrian when backing out into an aisle it will actually slam on the brakes and stop you before you can have a collision.

Theres a reason why they're mandating backup cameras.

Stroock639

no, it didn't have cross traffic alert, surround view, or emergency vertical takeoff like your sedona. but my dad's W212 does have the surround view and it's probably the coolest damn thing i've seen in a car lol... it's always very easy to park your car in a video game because the point of view can be adjusted so that it's third person and you can see exactly where every corner is. then i remember seeing it in the E63 for the first time and it was just like, holy ******, ok when did i enter the matrix, someone needs to switch reality back on... it makes it so easy to perfectly place the car exactly where you want it to be. it's really pretty amazing what's possible these days.