2015 Luxury Sales Battle Review
#31
Lexus Test Driver
Honestly Lexus currently offers 3 models of somewhat sporty cars - IS, GS and RC.
All are well underpowered even in F trim.
The people bashing BMW driving dynamics have not driven a properly equipped BMW.
BMW has purposely made its REGULAR models drive more MB and Lexus like. This was done to please the general public that *****ed about rough suspensions and tight steering that actually needed effort to turn.
You want sporty BMW then just get Msport model and get the Msport suspension, this is a must.
In addition, BMW is the only mass LUXURY manufacturer to offer MANUAL equipped sport sedans and coupes.
It also has an incredible M performance line of accessories for ALL models including SUVs that include power, exhaust, brakes, susp, cosmetic etc.
Not to mention European Delivery, Performance Center Delivery in US, Performance Driving School etc.
Lets praise BMW for stuff it does well for enthusiast community and hope that one day Lexus can offer half of what BMW currently provides for enthusiast clients.
All are well underpowered even in F trim.
The people bashing BMW driving dynamics have not driven a properly equipped BMW.
BMW has purposely made its REGULAR models drive more MB and Lexus like. This was done to please the general public that *****ed about rough suspensions and tight steering that actually needed effort to turn.
You want sporty BMW then just get Msport model and get the Msport suspension, this is a must.
In addition, BMW is the only mass LUXURY manufacturer to offer MANUAL equipped sport sedans and coupes.
It also has an incredible M performance line of accessories for ALL models including SUVs that include power, exhaust, brakes, susp, cosmetic etc.
Not to mention European Delivery, Performance Center Delivery in US, Performance Driving School etc.
Lets praise BMW for stuff it does well for enthusiast community and hope that one day Lexus can offer half of what BMW currently provides for enthusiast clients.
#32
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Honestly Lexus currently offers 3 models of somewhat sporty cars - IS, GS and RC.
All are well underpowered even in F trim.
The people bashing BMW driving dynamics have not driven a properly equipped BMW.
BMW has purposely made its REGULAR models drive more MB and Lexus like. This was done to please the general public that *****ed about rough suspensions and tight steering that actually needed effort to turn.
You want sporty BMW then just get Msport model and get the Msport suspension, this is a must.
In addition, BMW is the only mass LUXURY manufacturer to offer MANUAL equipped sport sedans and coupes.
It also has an incredible M performance line of accessories for ALL models including SUVs that include power, exhaust, brakes, susp, cosmetic etc.
Not to mention European Delivery, Performance Center Delivery in US, Performance Driving School etc.
Lets praise BMW for stuff it does well for enthusiast community and hope that one day Lexus can offer half of what BMW currently provides for enthusiast clients.
All are well underpowered even in F trim.
The people bashing BMW driving dynamics have not driven a properly equipped BMW.
BMW has purposely made its REGULAR models drive more MB and Lexus like. This was done to please the general public that *****ed about rough suspensions and tight steering that actually needed effort to turn.
You want sporty BMW then just get Msport model and get the Msport suspension, this is a must.
In addition, BMW is the only mass LUXURY manufacturer to offer MANUAL equipped sport sedans and coupes.
It also has an incredible M performance line of accessories for ALL models including SUVs that include power, exhaust, brakes, susp, cosmetic etc.
Not to mention European Delivery, Performance Center Delivery in US, Performance Driving School etc.
Lets praise BMW for stuff it does well for enthusiast community and hope that one day Lexus can offer half of what BMW currently provides for enthusiast clients.
#33
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Yes. Most manufacturers sell more crossovers. (SUV is incorrect because it would imply bof trucks). Ever seen a comparison between a RAV4 vs an X3 where the Bimmer didn't win out? Sedans with 4 cylinders? You implying that these are plodding, tractor engine 4's vs turbo-4's?
I wouldn't even bother with this other than it's a facetious straw man argument. You mean the Bimmer X series vehicles didn't get good reviews for their sportiness vs the RX?
But it's always a problem when headline posting gets questioned. Here's an obnoxious tilted test ala TG style to mollify some posters for snits and giggles.
Lexus ES 350 vs BMW 335i 0-60 MPH Mashup Drive & Review - YouTube
I wouldn't even bother with this other than it's a facetious straw man argument. You mean the Bimmer X series vehicles didn't get good reviews for their sportiness vs the RX?
But it's always a problem when headline posting gets questioned. Here's an obnoxious tilted test ala TG style to mollify some posters for snits and giggles.
Lexus ES 350 vs BMW 335i 0-60 MPH Mashup Drive & Review - YouTube
Rav4? ES350? lol.
Why are you comparing 4cly Rav4 to X3 and what does it have to do with Lexus? And ES350 to 335i?
Sad truth is that "german sport sedan company" sells more SUV's than sport sedans, and that most engines it sells in "german sport sedans" are 4cly engines. On the other hand, Lexus sport sedans are predominately sold with V6 engines. And I can send you few links where they beat BMW's in comparos, if you wish.
#34
Honestly Lexus currently offers 3 models of somewhat sporty cars - IS, GS and RC.
All are well underpowered even in F trim.
The people bashing BMW driving dynamics have not driven a properly equipped BMW.
BMW has purposely made its REGULAR models drive more MB and Lexus like. This was done to please the general public that *****ed about rough suspensions and tight steering that actually needed effort to turn.
You want sporty BMW then just get Msport model and get the Msport suspension, this is a must.
In addition, BMW is the only mass LUXURY manufacturer to offer MANUAL equipped sport sedans and coupes.
It also has an incredible M performance line of accessories for ALL models including SUVs that include power, exhaust, brakes, susp, cosmetic etc.
Not to mention European Delivery, Performance Center Delivery in US, Performance Driving School etc.
Lets praise BMW for stuff it does well for enthusiast community and hope that one day Lexus can offer half of what BMW currently provides for enthusiast clients.
All are well underpowered even in F trim.
The people bashing BMW driving dynamics have not driven a properly equipped BMW.
BMW has purposely made its REGULAR models drive more MB and Lexus like. This was done to please the general public that *****ed about rough suspensions and tight steering that actually needed effort to turn.
You want sporty BMW then just get Msport model and get the Msport suspension, this is a must.
In addition, BMW is the only mass LUXURY manufacturer to offer MANUAL equipped sport sedans and coupes.
It also has an incredible M performance line of accessories for ALL models including SUVs that include power, exhaust, brakes, susp, cosmetic etc.
Not to mention European Delivery, Performance Center Delivery in US, Performance Driving School etc.
Lets praise BMW for stuff it does well for enthusiast community and hope that one day Lexus can offer half of what BMW currently provides for enthusiast clients.
With all that being said, I have noticed that equipping them with the right options makes them feel more how BMWs are supposed to feel, but it's still a far cry from the days where an entry-level 328i could make one fall in love with the brand as it did for me. I'm not getting rid of my E90 since the F30 feels like like a Lexus in comparison. It ticks me off when I see so many people picking up these cars for the status when in reality such people are just watering down the brand for guys like you and me. I know so many people who've never even used the manual shift mode since they're scared. Call me extreme but I love the rock-hard steering and performance run flats on my E90, I can feel every d*mn imperfection and groove in the road and love it. That's how a BMW is supposed to feel.
Last edited by BrownPride; 02-17-16 at 10:18 AM.
#36
Lead Lap
BMW has become two lines of thought:
Economy mass sales:
N20 4 Cylinder
High Po train
I6 turbo v8
Astonishngly my SA says that overall the N20 was hated on, it sold more, and its been more reliable then the more espewive award winning N5- and N63w
#37
The top selling BMW is in fact the 320i with only a paltry 181 BHP & 0-60 in some 7.5 secs.
The top selling ES350 V6 will in fact leave the top selling 320i four cylinder behind at the lights.
#38
Lead Lap
That's a very silly comparison because the 335i 0-60 in 5.8 secs is NOT BMW's best seller; in fact the 335i sells in very small numbers.
The top selling BMW is in fact the 320i with only a paltry 181 BHP & 0-60 in some 7.5 secs.
The top selling ES350 V6 will in fact leave the top selling 320i four cylinder behind at the lights.
The top selling BMW is in fact the 320i with only a paltry 181 BHP & 0-60 in some 7.5 secs.
The top selling ES350 V6 will in fact leave the top selling 320i four cylinder behind at the lights.
Again seriously top selling is marketing bs.
Finally the only reason people are cros shopping a 320i over an ES is value for money.
The 320i ES350 segment attracts one major demo: frugal shoppers.
They probs could afford a top level accord or camry, but would like o drive a more cooler base spec luxury badge. THe ES of vcourse is better value, but BMW is a better badge to drive.
#39
But BMW says that handling isn't important anymore, and that linear acceleration of their new four cylinder turbos with their new deficient chassis - is more important now.
That really blows MattyG's argument out of the water.
http://www.zeroto60times.com/compare-cars/
Don't forget, the racing driver journalist in the YouTube video said the he'd have to "lose his reproductive organs" to fit in the back of the 3 Series.
.
That really blows MattyG's argument out of the water.
http://www.zeroto60times.com/compare-cars/
Don't forget, the racing driver journalist in the YouTube video said the he'd have to "lose his reproductive organs" to fit in the back of the 3 Series.
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 02-17-16 at 12:06 PM.
#40
2015 Sales War: Did Lexus Really Beat Out BMW?
Lexus is arguing that they, and not BMW, sold the most luxury cars in 2015. And at least some data is on their side.
Read the rest on the Club Lexus homepage. >>
#42
Lexus Test Driver
But BMW says that handling isn't important anymore, and that linear acceleration of their new four cylinder turbos with their new deficient chassis - is more important now.
That really blows MattyG's argument out of the water.
http://www.zeroto60times.com/compare-cars/
Don't forget, the racing driver journalist in the YouTube video said the he'd have to "lose his reproductive organs" to fit in the back of the 3 Series.
.
That really blows MattyG's argument out of the water.
http://www.zeroto60times.com/compare-cars/
Don't forget, the racing driver journalist in the YouTube video said the he'd have to "lose his reproductive organs" to fit in the back of the 3 Series.
.
BMW is still by far the most sport focused luxury car company out of MB, Audi, Lexus, Cadillac etc.
You guys do realize Lexus has only 1 coupe available, no convertibles, no roadsters, no grancoupes, no sport oriented SUVs, incomplete F lineup, no Manuals, no DCTs, no turbos and Zero aftermarket support from Lexus themselves to its customers.
BMW has all that and more.
Has it gone soft to get sales? Yes
Hast it *****d out ///M brand? Yes
But like i said - if overall Lexus would offer 50% what BMW does for "enthusiasts" i would be thrilled.
Its easy to nitpick but BMW still offers tremendous lineup of performance oriented cars.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 02-17-16 at 01:01 PM.
#43
Lexus Fanatic
I really don't understand what the big the deal is. BMW/MB/Audi all sell many of the cars for higher starting MSRPs, the LS starts at 25k under the BMW or MB. So Lexus won or did the lose, really makes no difference.
#44
Lexus Champion
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Have you heard of SLR, SLS Gullwing, GT AMG (which crowned MT Driver's COTY)?
AMG and its beloved Black Series that blow everything M, F, RS, and V put out.
AMG Sport brand to go toe to toe with M performance, S line, F sport, V sport.
MB also take SUV coupe definition created by BMW a little too far.
If you consider off-roading a sport, which it is, Gelandewagon has 2 AMG flavor.
MB have just as big, probably bigger Tuner support.
#45
Lexus Test Driver
NO. Mercedes Benz is the most sport focused mainstream luxury.
Have you heard of SLR, SLS Gullwing, GT AMG (which crowned MT Driver's COTY)?
AMG and its beloved Black Series that blow everything M, F, RS, and V put out.
AMG Sport brand to go toe to toe with M performance, S line, F sport, V sport.
MB also take SUV coupe definition created by BMW a little too far.
If you consider off-roading a sport, which it is, Gelandewagon has 2 AMG flavor.
MB have just as big, probably bigger Tuner support.
Have you heard of SLR, SLS Gullwing, GT AMG (which crowned MT Driver's COTY)?
AMG and its beloved Black Series that blow everything M, F, RS, and V put out.
AMG Sport brand to go toe to toe with M performance, S line, F sport, V sport.
MB also take SUV coupe definition created by BMW a little too far.
If you consider off-roading a sport, which it is, Gelandewagon has 2 AMG flavor.
MB have just as big, probably bigger Tuner support.
Frugal enthusiasts = Lexus owner
Poseur enthusiasts = BMW owner
Real enthusiasts = MB owner
Given the choice between cheap, dumb and loaded, I guess all of us standing up for Lexus are cheap.