Why is Lexus so loud inside the cabin?
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Yes, I agree that aren't in LS460 or Mercedes S-class territory in the noise-department. When I said cocoon-quiet, IMO, I meant compared to most of their competition in that size/price range. And the Verano would be quieter yet if it had a small V6 and taller-profile tires like the 200.
Thread Starter
Lexus Test Driver
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From: Sacramento, CA
It's a business my friend. Cars aren't built to what you feel they"should be", they're built to compete in certain segments. If they made every Lexus as quiet as the LS, what would be their selling proposition for the LS?
$200 in sound proofing per unit at a mass scale is a lot of money.
The GS is every bit as quiet or quieterthan a 5 series. I know, I owned one and cross shopped it extensively against the 5 series and everything else in its class. It's not as quiet as an LS, and neither is a 5 series. An RX is just as quiet as an Acura RDX or MDX, it's not as quiet as an LX. My ESs were as quiet or quieter than other entry level luxury cars at the time, not as quiet as the GS or LS. That's how it works.
$200 in sound proofing per unit at a mass scale is a lot of money.
The GS is every bit as quiet or quieterthan a 5 series. I know, I owned one and cross shopped it extensively against the 5 series and everything else in its class. It's not as quiet as an LS, and neither is a 5 series. An RX is just as quiet as an Acura RDX or MDX, it's not as quiet as an LX. My ESs were as quiet or quieter than other entry level luxury cars at the time, not as quiet as the GS or LS. That's how it works.
As for selling points of any future LS there is no problem keeping technology, suspension, engine superiority at a formidable distance from an entry level luxury car. There is pleanty of hardware & software to separate a top tier vehicle from the rest of the pack. I'd really love to tear out the interior of an LS out of curiosity to see what they did to it. Might be some surprises.
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Why is Lexus so loud inside the cabin?
If you want a custom amount of sound deadening...put it in yourself like you did. Clearly the RX competes pretty well in its segment, being the top seller and all.
I think you would be surprised to know that if you tore the carpet out of most vehicles you would find sound deadening pretty similar to that Tercel. Reason being sound deadeners aren't really the main approach carmakers use to combat NVH. If that was all that matters, why is an RX quieter than that Tercel?
You also have to understand that cars get louder as they age. You can't come in and say Lexus doesn't build a quiet car because a 12 year old GS430 may be loud. Seals dry up and split and gap over time. I drove and shopped for that car when it was brand new, and it was very quiet.
I think you would be surprised to know that if you tore the carpet out of most vehicles you would find sound deadening pretty similar to that Tercel. Reason being sound deadeners aren't really the main approach carmakers use to combat NVH. If that was all that matters, why is an RX quieter than that Tercel?
You also have to understand that cars get louder as they age. You can't come in and say Lexus doesn't build a quiet car because a 12 year old GS430 may be loud. Seals dry up and split and gap over time. I drove and shopped for that car when it was brand new, and it was very quiet.
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From: RightHere
If you want a custom amount of sound deadening...put it in yourself like you did. Clearly the RX competes pretty well in its segment, being the top seller and all.
I think you would be surprised to know that if you tore the carpet out of most vehicles you would find sound deadening pretty similar to that Tercel. Reason being sound deadeners aren't really the main approach carmakers use to combat NVH. If that was all that matters, why is an RX quieter than that Tercel?
You also have to understand that cars get louder as they age. You can't come in and say Lexus doesn't build a quiet car because a 12 year old GS430 may be loud. Seals dry up and split and gap over time. I drove and shopped for that car when it was brand new, and it was very quiet.
I think you would be surprised to know that if you tore the carpet out of most vehicles you would find sound deadening pretty similar to that Tercel. Reason being sound deadeners aren't really the main approach carmakers use to combat NVH. If that was all that matters, why is an RX quieter than that Tercel?
You also have to understand that cars get louder as they age. You can't come in and say Lexus doesn't build a quiet car because a 12 year old GS430 may be loud. Seals dry up and split and gap over time. I drove and shopped for that car when it was brand new, and it was very quiet.
Your argument is honest and correct in terms of age and deterioration. But it implies that Lexus' rep as a vehicle that ages very well may be in question. That to match the BMW competition you would have had to put with road roar from a 17 inch wheel/tire pack.
Sidenote: My mid-nineties Camry was bought as a used car at 320,000 km. Quieter than my GS.
The only thing I can think as to road noise is that the frame rubber isolation stops transmit noise. But it doesn't show as a problem on the 2GS over the years on these forums.
Yes soundproofing material is on the way for my vehicle and will be installed as a diy soon enough.
Last edited by MattyG; Oct 20, 2015 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Editing corrections.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,629
Likes: 280
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
If you want a custom amount of sound deadening...put it in yourself like you did. Clearly the RX competes pretty well in its segment, being the top seller and all.
I think you would be surprised to know that if you tore the carpet out of most vehicles you would find sound deadening pretty similar to that Tercel. Reason being sound deadeners aren't really the main approach carmakers use to combat NVH. If that was all that matters, why is an RX quieter than that Tercel?
You also have to understand that cars get louder as they age. You can't come in and say Lexus doesn't build a quiet car because a 12 year old GS430 may be loud. Seals dry up and split and gap over time. I drove and shopped for that car when it was brand new, and it was very quiet.
I think you would be surprised to know that if you tore the carpet out of most vehicles you would find sound deadening pretty similar to that Tercel. Reason being sound deadeners aren't really the main approach carmakers use to combat NVH. If that was all that matters, why is an RX quieter than that Tercel?
You also have to understand that cars get louder as they age. You can't come in and say Lexus doesn't build a quiet car because a 12 year old GS430 may be loud. Seals dry up and split and gap over time. I drove and shopped for that car when it was brand new, and it was very quiet.
Last edited by mmarshall; Oct 20, 2015 at 06:56 PM.
Lexus Fanatic
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From: Maryland
Tires play a very important role in the ride and noise isolation of a Lexus I agree.
Find me a review of the 2GS that says the car is loud.
Your argument is honest and correct in terms of age and deterioration. But it implies that Lexus' rep as a vehicle that ages very well may be in question.
Sidenote: My mid-nineties Camry was bought as a used car at 320,000 km. Quieter than my GS.
The only thing I can think as to road noise is that the frame rubber isolation stops transmit noise. But it doesn't show as a problem on the 2GS over the years on these forums.
Lexus Champion
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From: RightHere
SW you'll find that car reviewers don't always spend a lot of time with a car and often want to know how smooth it rides or how well it carves a corner. Interior noise is not mentioned.
When C&D did their test of the 2GS430 along with a 540, surprise - the Lexus folks provided a car with 16 inch wheels/tires. When a car manufacturer wants to emphasize sportiness? They'll send you to a race track with a 17,18,19 inch wheel/tire pack. When they want to hit the middle ground they'll go with a mid level suspension wheel/tire pack.
So I don't go always go by those. But look for owner complaints of road noise in Lexus, Mercedes or BMW etc and you'll find plenty online. Manufacturers will cheap on soundproofing if they think it will cut costs... and they have in recent years. It's showing up in threads like this more often.
Notice how car reviewers no longer seem to do sound meter tests on their test rides? I remember reading an old test of the Lincoln Mark VIII coupe and it measured at 64 db interior noise level. Astonishingly quiet.
When C&D did their test of the 2GS430 along with a 540, surprise - the Lexus folks provided a car with 16 inch wheels/tires. When a car manufacturer wants to emphasize sportiness? They'll send you to a race track with a 17,18,19 inch wheel/tire pack. When they want to hit the middle ground they'll go with a mid level suspension wheel/tire pack.
So I don't go always go by those. But look for owner complaints of road noise in Lexus, Mercedes or BMW etc and you'll find plenty online. Manufacturers will cheap on soundproofing if they think it will cut costs... and they have in recent years. It's showing up in threads like this more often.
Notice how car reviewers no longer seem to do sound meter tests on their test rides? I remember reading an old test of the Lincoln Mark VIII coupe and it measured at 64 db interior noise level. Astonishingly quiet.
Lexus Champion
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From: TX
the problems arise when the NVH treatment is not balanced across the platform ie floor, doors, windows, roof, mirrors, etc. If the floor has tons of sound deadening, and the glass in the window is a thin one, you will find the car noisy. If the window pane is double layered x-thick, and the floor has no sound deadening, you will find it to be noisy. Balancing all the possible sources of NVH is the key.
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Lexus Fanatic
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From: Maryland
Notice how car reviewers no longer seem to do sound meter tests on their test rides? I remember reading an old test of the Lincoln Mark VIII coupe and it measured at 64 db interior noise level. Astonishingly quiet.
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From: RightHere
No db in this particular test of a 2001 GS:
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/gs-430/2001/road-test/
One reference to noise in that test:
"On the open road, headed toward the otherworldly landscape of Joshua Tree National Monument with family members on board is where the GS 430 truly sparkles. Its silent cabin, expurgated of any noise, harshness or vibration, is a portrait of tranquility. The GS 430 isolates you from any inconsistencies in the road."
Look SW. You drive an LS so it makes sense you are experiencing a quiet ride. We can go back and forth all you want, it's not going to change some ownership experiences.
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/gs-430/2001/road-test/
One reference to noise in that test:
"On the open road, headed toward the otherworldly landscape of Joshua Tree National Monument with family members on board is where the GS 430 truly sparkles. Its silent cabin, expurgated of any noise, harshness or vibration, is a portrait of tranquility. The GS 430 isolates you from any inconsistencies in the road."
Look SW. You drive an LS so it makes sense you are experiencing a quiet ride. We can go back and forth all you want, it's not going to change some ownership experiences.
Lexus Fanatic
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Edmunds didn't start putting db readings in their reports until probably 8-10 years ago.
That quote from edmunds though says that its a silent cabin, without any noise, and that it isolates you from the road. That means they thought it was quiet.
Yes I own an LS now, but I have had several other Lexus vehicles too, as well as driven pretty much every iteration of all of them. On good tires, all Lexus vehicles are quiet, some very quiet. The key is on good tires.
That quote from edmunds though says that its a silent cabin, without any noise, and that it isolates you from the road. That means they thought it was quiet.
Yes I own an LS now, but I have had several other Lexus vehicles too, as well as driven pretty much every iteration of all of them. On good tires, all Lexus vehicles are quiet, some very quiet. The key is on good tires.
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Why is Lexus so loud inside the cabin?
Originally Posted by GSteg
Just out of curiosity, what frequencies are these guys measuring? I'd like to see a full frequency response rather than just one single measurement (meaningless by itself).
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From: RightHere
Hopefully both I and the original poster will get our cars quieter. But if anybody is telling me that Michelins are not "good tires", I have a problem with that. But arguing with strangers on the internet is not a good hobby.
Tire noise is a pretty obvious source of road noise, hence insulating a vehicle from road roar requires extra insulation. Ergo, extra cost. VW is just learning this with emission issues, something Lexus got right, right from the start.
I guess I've said all I can. OP tell me what you find out. My insulation is on the way too
Tire noise is a pretty obvious source of road noise, hence insulating a vehicle from road roar requires extra insulation. Ergo, extra cost. VW is just learning this with emission issues, something Lexus got right, right from the start.
I guess I've said all I can. OP tell me what you find out. My insulation is on the way too