spwolf

Lexus is part of Toyota, and LS600h did its part... We can see every luxury maker following LS600h footsteps and copying Lexus in their hybrid strategy. So yes, Lexus and Toyota hybrids did change the industry.

Tesla made a great car, but it did not change the industry. Nobody else is copying Tesla because there is no money to be made there. Everyone is trying to copy Lexus and Toyota since they are making money and selling 1.4m hybrids per year.

Once again, I love Tesla tech and I would buy it over any Lexus hybrid if all else was equal, but at the same time, it did not really change anything or even influence anything except for perception maybe.

Toyota/Lexus probably wants the same to happen for LS FCEV in the future - low sales, but proving that luxury FC is possible, thus paving way for future models.

Of course, let me point out that LS600h sells around 25% of LS overall sales worldwide. I think you probably did not know this... US is not the world. Thats better than hybrid percentage for Camry for instance. So, not a failure at all.

spwolf

i think so far. RXh and CTh are tied for best selling Lexus hybrid title... not bad for very expensive RX450h.

LeX2K

Tesla radically changed the industry and it's only the beginning. Your ongoing hatred of Tesla Motors is ridiculous.

spwolf

It is not "hating" if i point out that they are trying to hide unsold stock from their investors, or that they are unprofitable or whatever else was why you thought i hate them... I like the car, dishonest management less.

In any case, point out how it changed the industry - and who is following Tesla, since I dont see anyone doing anything like that.

Great car - yes, industry changing - no.

Levi68

So many car companies could follow Tesla, take BMW i for example, but they don't. Because it does not work. Tesla does not make money, their stocks are overvalued. Tesla is 100% speculation. Telsa is of worse quality than Fiat, don't get how people pay 70K for it.

Gojirra99

If 1 series, Mercedes CLA, and the stripped down versions of 3 and C, etc., in Europe are , why not ?

Vladi

BMW i-brand is a so, so effort. They count on the badge to ridiculously price the mediocre drivetrain in combination with futuristic design. The only solution that is solid second to Tesla Model S, but still too far behind, is Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. Proper medium sized SUV, no gimmick design, fully usable, best EV range for its size and weight and the best of all it's priced like a diesel cousin without a premium markup.

LeX2K

If there is anything negative about Tesla I can always count on your post post about it.

peteharvey

I think the Tesla has great potential.
It's quick.
Has a front and rear trunk.



The Tesla S is a low emissions vehicle LEV, but NOT a zero emissions vehicle ZEV.
To be a zero emissions vehicle, the electricity generating power plant that recharges the batteries would have to be:
1) solar powered
2) wind powered
3) sea wave powered
4) hydro-electric powered by rain falling on the dam, and water running off the dam,
5) geothermal powered by heat, but restricted by location.

The problem is that most of the recharging electricity for the Tesla, and even electricity to produce hydrogen for hydrogen fuel cell vehicles like the Mirai and 2017 Lexus 5LS FCV - is produced by coal, or oil, which still produces carbon emissions, though less.

Nuclear power plants produce zero carbon emission, however they produce tons of radioactive plutonium which is even worse.


Continuing, the full electric vehicle EV Tesla S has great potential, however they must still address cabin space efficiency, and weight, because the batteries under the floor rob the cabin of 100 mm in vertical height.





Furthermore, although the Tesla is built from aluminium, it still tips the scale at over 2,100 kg for the base model.
By comparison, a base model Lexus 4GS350, which has more vertical cabin space, weighs only 1,650 kg, so the 4GS350 will kill the Tesla S on the handling circuit.
Ultimately, the conventional gasoline powered piston engine is only 2/3, or even half the cost.
A future small capacity turbo will make the 5GS a even more compelling argument against the Tesla S.

Other things that the Tesla must develop include recharge times.
Presently, a typical home power point takes 72 hours to recharge the Tesla's batteries!
A "supercharger" power outlet available at restricted locations can charge 80% of the battery in 20 minutes, and the entire 100% in 40 minutes, but be careful, because with superfast recharging, the overall longevity of the battery pack will be reduced in years.
By comparison, a gasoline car only takes 3 minutes to refuel, while even a hydrogen car takes just 5 minutes...

G Star

iTrader: (2)

Sigh, Lexus should've went with a plug-in hybrid YEARS ago then now moving into hydrogen would've been the perfect compliment. Also even though Lexus continues their messaging of maintaining practical vehicles and that is why they stick with hybrid, there is no premiem car executive that is not regretting not coming out with a fully electric luxury vehicle like the Tesla Model S.

LeX2K

An electric has the option hydrogen or gas will never have, you can charge the car at home. To me that makes up for the slower "fuel" times since the vast majority of people take long trips a few times per year and the rest of the driving is done near the house.

GQD_GS4

Lots of hate on tesla in this thread. Any actual owners here besides me? i have owned every high end brand except for the exotics, and the Model S makes all cars look bad. I dont care to elaborate cuz haters gonna hate anyway, but a good analogy is this: the Model S is the Ipod/Ipad of the auto industry. I only hang onto my gasoline powered cars because those were my dream cars when i was growing up.

Sulu

I don't hate Tesla; I am glad that someone has proven that it is possible to build EVs with no range anxiety, and to be able to do it with current technology. Just call me a sceptic. My internal hype-meter is off the scale right now and when it is, experience tells me that there is much more to the story than what we are being told.

Personally, I do not trust Elon Musk. I do not believe that he is an honest man.

peteharvey

Apart from two trunks, quick/exotic acceleration & lower emissions, why should one pay up to twice the price for a Tesla S with a smaller cabin, 2100+ kg of handling around corners, diminished range, up to 72 hours to recharge at home, or 20 minutes to supercharge 80% at restricted sites, when say a more spacious cabin GS350 is only 1650 kg on the handling circuit & costs up to half the Tesla S?

I think the Tesla S has great potential, but I don't think it's smart for me to put my money on it yet; am I right?

LeX2K

Tesla is hated because it challenges so many norms in the auto and energy industry. For the energy sector it's downright scary because it removes them from the equation, you are no longer a slave to the gas pump. Hydrogen keeps you a slave to the pump, just a different kind of fuel.
You think a Tesla charging station is a restriction? Hydrogen has it beat so badly it's not even funny, with a Tesla you can drive around the country for the most part a FCV forget it. It costs $1 million+ to build a hydrogen station and about $25,000 for an electric.