Lease question....what does this statement mean?
CL Community Team
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,265
Likes: 482
From: MA
Also, unlike the lease with your John Hancock on it, that email isn't signed. Which do you think will stand up in court?
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,059
Likes: 3
From: tx
I have it in the form of his emails.......
"It is a closed end lease. The charges that they are talking about would be any excessive wear and tear. The lease is with Porsche financial ."
I agree that originally it sounded open-ended......but I'm not aware of ANY car finance companies...let alone big ones like BMWFS, Porsche Finance, MB Finance....doing these anymore. We aren't talking about a $10k car. I will be highly pissed to take time out of my day to go there to find out he boldly lied if it ends up being open-ended. I don't think these guys are that hard-up for customers.
"It is a closed end lease. The charges that they are talking about would be any excessive wear and tear. The lease is with Porsche financial ."
I agree that originally it sounded open-ended......but I'm not aware of ANY car finance companies...let alone big ones like BMWFS, Porsche Finance, MB Finance....doing these anymore. We aren't talking about a $10k car. I will be highly pissed to take time out of my day to go there to find out he boldly lied if it ends up being open-ended. I don't think these guys are that hard-up for customers.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 72
From: TN
I suspect the lease agreement has a comment toward the end to the effect "This Agreement contains the entire agreement between the parties and supersedes any previous agreement (written or oral) between the parties." Which clause renders your emails worthless.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,059
Likes: 3
From: tx
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 69,226
Likes: 4,222
From: Maryland
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,252
Likes: 4
From: Sacramento, CA
I've seen mgrs fired and their fall back is "he no longer works here and he shoudn't have said that. Your still obligated for the residual" Contract stays, managers and sales people come & go. Then you'll have to get your emais, lawyers get involved and it's a mess. Get a CLEAN lease without that in there.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 69,226
Likes: 4,222
From: Maryland
Bingo. Why even get into that sort of lease and drive it for the next few years with that hanging over your head? Will I? Won't I?
I've seen mgrs fired and their fall back is "he no longer works here and he shoudn't have said that. Your still obligated for the residual" Contract stays, managers and sales people come & go. Then you'll have to get your emais, lawyers get involved and it's a mess. Get a CLEAN lease without that in there.
I've seen mgrs fired and their fall back is "he no longer works here and he shoudn't have said that. Your still obligated for the residual" Contract stays, managers and sales people come & go. Then you'll have to get your emais, lawyers get involved and it's a mess. Get a CLEAN lease without that in there.
ClubLexus Stories
Celebrating Lexus & Toyota from Around the Globe
Lexus NX 350h: A Fuel-Sipping Secret Hot Hatch???
Michael S. Palmer
5 Best & 5 Worst Lexus Daily Drivers
Joe Kucinski
Top 5 Hottest Lexus & Toyotas in 2026 (Hardest To Buy)
Brett Foote
2026 Lexus IS 350 F Sport Review: The Last of Its Kind Still Rocks
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Confusing Things Lexus Has Ever Done!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Lexus ES Review: Lexus Re-Embraces Founding Principles
Michael S. Palmer
10 Lexus Bargains That are Cheaper Than a New Toyota RAV4
Joe Kucinski
8 Weirdest Things Lexus Has Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
10 Lexus Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,702
Likes: 290
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Bingo. Why even get into that sort of lease and drive it for the next few years with that hanging over your head? Will I? Won't I?
I've seen mgrs fired and their fall back is "he no longer works here and he shoudn't have said that. Your still obligated for the residual" Contract stays, managers and sales people come & go. Then you'll have to get your emais, lawyers get involved and it's a mess. Get a CLEAN lease without that in there.
I've seen mgrs fired and their fall back is "he no longer works here and he shoudn't have said that. Your still obligated for the residual" Contract stays, managers and sales people come & go. Then you'll have to get your emais, lawyers get involved and it's a mess. Get a CLEAN lease without that in there.
Last edited by mmarshall; Nov 30, 2014 at 04:18 PM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 69,226
Likes: 4,222
From: Maryland
It also brings up a question I've often wondered, that if managers have to personally review and OK every purchase-order or lease-contract at the dealership, then why hire salespeople in the first place? It's just a redundant operation.....essentially two cooks stirring the broth.
What also colors your perception is the fact that car salespeople are, on the whole, completely incompetent and terrible salespeople. They rarely understand the product, they rarely have any customer service or sales skills or instincts.
The sales manager is not a salesperson, and if they had to administrate the sales floor in the dealership, approve deals and check paperwork AND deal with the hands on sales needs of the customer, the process would be much worse.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,702
Likes: 290
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Originally Posted by SW13GS
What also colors your perception is the fact that car salespeople are, on the whole, completely incompetent and terrible salespeople. They rarely understand the product, they rarely have any customer service or sales skills or instincts.
Last edited by mmarshall; Nov 30, 2014 at 05:57 PM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 69,226
Likes: 4,222
From: Maryland
There certainly are salespeople with excellent product knowledge, but its the exception not the rule.
One of the big reasons for that is that people who are good salespeople typically move on to industries where they can make more money than cars. No training, revolving doors of salespeople. Its a mess.
One of the big reasons for that is that people who are good salespeople typically move on to industries where they can make more money than cars. No training, revolving doors of salespeople. Its a mess.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,702
Likes: 290
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
There certainly are salespeople with excellent product knowledge, but its the exception not the rule.
One of the big reasons for that is that people who are good salespeople typically move on to industries where they can make more money than cars. No training, revolving doors of salespeople. Its a mess.
One of the big reasons for that is that people who are good salespeople typically move on to industries where they can make more money than cars. No training, revolving doors of salespeople. Its a mess.
Anyhow, back to the original question. I think the Porsche dealership is trying to lowball him on realistic lease-payments and then stick him for the balance of the actual depreciation so they're not stuck with it. My advice would probably be not to sign the contract. Do you agree?
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 69,226
Likes: 4,222
From: Maryland
Well, no arguments there. Money talks. Some salespeople, though, make a bundle.....others can't make ends meet at all. I liked the old Saturn system where salespeople weren't paid commissions, getting a guaranteed salary instead, sold everything at list/no-haggle prices, and wore white or colored T-shirts with the company logo on them instead of business suits. Even the sales managers wore T-shirts. (I bought a Saturn myself under that no-haggle system...an SL2, and liked both the system and the car).
Good salespeople won't want to work on salary either, because they won't get paid as much as they will on commission. Basically those Saturn guys were just customer service reps, not salespeople.
Anyhow, back to the original question. I think the Porsche dealership is trying to lowball him on realistic lease-payments and then stick him for the balance of the actual depreciation so they're not stuck with it. My advice would probably be not to sign the contract. Do you agree?
No way I would sign it until I read the document fully.
Thread Starter
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
From: CHICAGO
I'll give the guy credit....the ad originally said 10k miles per year...and when I emailed him he said that was wrong (that it was only for 5k) but that he would honor the 10k/year.
Obviously I would want to review the contract......and yeah, sales people, managers, etc. lie all the time....but I like to negotiate everything in writing (terms, payments, figures, etc) so I can go in and sign the paperwork and be done. My whole issue is I'm a busy person....I don't want to be bothered going in there ready to buy a $115k car and then get BS'ed around. My time is worth much more than that. Plus, in this day and age of social media....it's just bad business to pull stuff like that because the word does get out when dealers do this as opposed to 10-15 years ago.
Also, someone mentioned MB balloon financing earlier in this thread....the MB balloon is not a lease....you actually own the vehicle.
Obviously I would want to review the contract......and yeah, sales people, managers, etc. lie all the time....but I like to negotiate everything in writing (terms, payments, figures, etc) so I can go in and sign the paperwork and be done. My whole issue is I'm a busy person....I don't want to be bothered going in there ready to buy a $115k car and then get BS'ed around. My time is worth much more than that. Plus, in this day and age of social media....it's just bad business to pull stuff like that because the word does get out when dealers do this as opposed to 10-15 years ago.
Also, someone mentioned MB balloon financing earlier in this thread....the MB balloon is not a lease....you actually own the vehicle.