MM Update: 6Gen Lexus ES350
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That is interesting that testing in the summer compared to the winter made so much of a difference. I actually find that troubling that a car would give a pretty bad impression when tested in the winter with harsher ride, seeming to be cost cut in areas but then in the summer you notice a pretty big difference which could actually mean there is more cost cutting if you notice such a difference. I have never experienced a car that rode harsh and gave a bad impression in the winter but gave a noticeable better ride/impression in the summer. My GS takes longer to warm up in the winter and transmission shifts a little rougher on very cold days on start up but that is a given with all cars, only other thing I notice is the front suspension creaks more over speed bumps and other bumps in colder weather but that is about it. I would be very concerned about the quality and how a car is going to hold up if it rides much better and give a much better impression in the summer compared to the winter.
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That is interesting that testing in the summer compared to the winter made so much of a difference. I actually find that troubling that a car would give a pretty bad impression when tested in the winter with harsher ride, seeming to be cost cut in areas but then in the summer you notice a pretty big difference which could actually mean there is more cost cutting if you notice such a difference. I have never experienced a car that rode harsh and gave a bad impression in the winter but gave a noticeable better ride/impression in the summer. My GS takes longer to warm up in the winter and transmission shifts a little rougher on very cold days on start up but that is a given with all cars, only other thing I notice is the front suspension creaks more over speed bumps and other bumps in colder weather but that is about it. I would be very concerned about the quality and how a car is going to hold up if it rides much better and give a much better impression in the summer compared to the winter.
Lexus should also bring in the IS 300h as the entry level hybrid sport sedan and the GS 450h is the mid-level hybrid sport sedan.
Last edited by bitkahuna; Jul 27, 2014 at 10:01 PM.
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Can't fault the power train or the general refinement, though, of either the ES or Avalon......both are just like butter, though the Avalon's ride over bumps, IMO, has been firmed up unnecessarily, even taking temperature into account.
Last edited by mmarshall; Jul 26, 2014 at 06:18 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
That is interesting that testing in the summer compared to the winter made so much of a difference. I actually find that troubling that a car would give a pretty bad impression when tested in the winter with harsher ride, seeming to be cost cut in areas but then in the summer you notice a pretty big difference which could actually mean there is more cost cutting if you notice such a difference. I have never experienced a car that rode harsh and gave a bad impression in the winter but gave a noticeable better ride/impression in the summer. My GS takes longer to warm up in the winter and transmission shifts a little rougher on very cold days on start up but that is a given with all cars, only other thing I notice is the front suspension creaks more over speed bumps and other bumps in colder weather but that is about it. I would be very concerned about the quality and how a car is going to hold up if it rides much better and give a much better impression in the summer compared to the winter.
Originally Posted by spwolf
you are overthinking it... it is not different than any other car, mmarshal is sensitive about these things.
Originally Posted by UDel
I have never experienced a car that rode harsh and gave a bad impression in the winter but gave a noticeable better ride/impression in the summer.
Last edited by mmarshall; Jul 26, 2014 at 05:19 PM.
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believe hs250h is still available in japan at least, but as you know it didn't sell in the u.s., so it would need a new 'formula' to work.
the gs450h and ls600hl, partly due to almost no marketing, partly due to price, partly due to not very compelling value proposition, don't sell much, so they need a new formula too. no doubt the new LS will bring a different setup. don't get me wrong though, i think the ls600hl is AMAZING, and if i was in the market for a big hushed sedan i'd definitely consider it, although at that price, the s-class is an option too.
the gs450h and ls600hl, partly due to almost no marketing, partly due to price, partly due to not very compelling value proposition, don't sell much, so they need a new formula too. no doubt the new LS will bring a different setup. don't get me wrong though, i think the ls600hl is AMAZING, and if i was in the market for a big hushed sedan i'd definitely consider it, although at that price, the s-class is an option too.
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lipstick on a pig but we've had all these discussions. it's obviously hard to do a 'normal' sized sedan that's a hybrid because the batteries and motors have to go somewhere. makes more sense in a bigger sedan or cuv/suv. the CT looks decent, but has very little cargo room, which is why the taller prius type shape makes more sense, although even that cargo area is not very tall.
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We had a loaded HS and one thing it had in spades was technology (optional). My folks never considered a RX or ES hybrid since it might have the hybrid tech but lacked many of the features of the HS like LKA, a front camera, radar cruise control. Its hilarious to see competitors finally boast some of this tech in 2014 and the HS had it in 2009 as a 2010 model.
The HS sadly didn't look great and tried to be a jack of all trades without being a master of one. And maybe 3 sedans at that price point is just too much, maybe a coupe would have made more sense here.
The CT has exceeded all sales targets. Sounds like you have an issue with it but not consumers or the intended market.
Obviously the CT is not a Prius, it was aimed for a sportier and more youthful buyer.
The HS sadly didn't look great and tried to be a jack of all trades without being a master of one. And maybe 3 sedans at that price point is just too much, maybe a coupe would have made more sense here.
lipstick on a pig but we've had all these discussions. it's obviously hard to do a 'normal' sized sedan that's a hybrid because the batteries and motors have to go somewhere. makes more sense in a bigger sedan or cuv/suv. the CT looks decent, but has very little cargo room, which is why the taller prius type shape makes more sense, although even that cargo area is not very tall.
Obviously the CT is not a Prius, it was aimed for a sportier and more youthful buyer.
lipstick on a pig but we've had all these discussions. it's obviously hard to do a 'normal' sized sedan that's a hybrid because the batteries and motors have to go somewhere. makes more sense in a bigger sedan or cuv/suv. the CT looks decent, but has very little cargo room, which is why the taller prius type shape makes more sense, although even that cargo area is not very tall.
We had a loaded HS and one thing it had in spades was technology (optional). My folks never considered a RX or ES hybrid since it might have the hybrid tech but lacked many of the features of the HS like LKA, a front camera, radar cruise control. Its hilarious to see competitors finally boast some of this tech in 2014 and the HS had it in 2009 as a 2010 model.
The HS sadly didn't look great and tried to be a jack of all trades without being a master of one. And maybe 3 sedans at that price point is just too much, maybe a coupe would have made more sense here.
The CT has exceeded all sales targets. Sounds like you have an issue with it but not consumers or the intended market.
Obviously the CT is not a Prius, it was aimed for a sportier and more youthful buyer.
The HS sadly didn't look great and tried to be a jack of all trades without being a master of one. And maybe 3 sedans at that price point is just too much, maybe a coupe would have made more sense here.
The CT has exceeded all sales targets. Sounds like you have an issue with it but not consumers or the intended market.
Obviously the CT is not a Prius, it was aimed for a sportier and more youthful buyer.
CT handles very well. Add a little extra weight from safety, tech, content and it'll have a few tradeoffs compared to the more pleblian Prius but worth it in the premium hatch segment. CT has a bright future IMO.
Last edited by Hoovey689; Jul 28, 2014 at 10:24 AM.
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lipstick on a pig but we've had all these discussions. it's obviously hard to do a 'normal' sized sedan that's a hybrid because the batteries and motors have to go somewhere. makes more sense in a bigger sedan or cuv/suv. the CT looks decent, but has very little cargo room, which is why the taller prius type shape makes more sense, although even that cargo area is not very tall.
On the other hand, problem with HS250h and sales were numerous, and I bet if they do another one (and they will), it will double the sales easily.
What they can and will do better is:
- Exterior looks
- Interior looks (like NX)
- Powertrain - one in ES300h is already a lot better - more power, more refined, better MPG
- better packaging - batteries under seat.
- better drive (all new platform)
ES300h isnt offered in half of Lexus markets (too big), so they do need FWD Sedan thats between A3 and CLA. This will probably come out in 2016.
CT though needs a more lucrative profile to be worthy of the L badge, which is why it doesn't look like an appliance vs its kissing cousin.
... a CT sedan is likely too if Lexus feels they can cash in from a more efficient standpoint vs the 'sporty' nature of the A3 and CLA.
CT handles very well. Add a little extra weight from safety, tech, content and it'll have a few tradeoffs compared to the more pleblian Prius but worth it in the premium hatch segment.
On the other hand, problem with HS250h and sales were numerous, and I bet if they do another one (and they will), it will double the sales easily.
What they can and will do better is:
- Exterior looks
- Interior looks (like NX)
- Powertrain - one in ES300h is already a lot better - more power, more refined, better MPG
- better packaging - batteries under seat.
- better drive (all new platform)
What they can and will do better is:
- Exterior looks
- Interior looks (like NX)
- Powertrain - one in ES300h is already a lot better - more power, more refined, better MPG
- better packaging - batteries under seat.
- better drive (all new platform)
and they'd need to do a lot better than double sales.
ES300h isnt offered in half of Lexus markets (too big), so they do need FWD Sedan thats between A3 and CLA. This will probably come out in 2016.
good posts guys.
Let's hope that CT300h comes to fruition.
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