SW17LS

Sales will tell the story. New RX is doing great and it's pretty darn...aggressive. NX is selling well. Prior refresh Camry did fine. Prius is down but there are other market factors at work there.

imrankh24

I despise camrys a lot like a lot, but this Camry has me feeling different ways. The xse white on red is a homerun in my books.

peteharvey

RX looks great Steve. And did some 110k units last year.
To a lesser extent the NX. You get what you pay for, so they deliberately made the NX look less spectacular compared to RX.
Current gen Camry looks reasonably good, and selling quite well - almost at record levels.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

SW17LS

You think the RX looks great but the new LS is too aggressive?!? Lots of people hate the styling of the new RX, I'm not a fan myself. It's way more polarizing than this...

ISFPOWER

iTrader: (20)

This car is so nice. wow.

SW17LS

I just watched that too, very impressive.

MattyG

I think that it will be worth waiting for the road tests of this car and that's when the chassis tech will be revealed. Can you subject this LS to the Nurburgring with its active suspension and rear wheel steering? Can it go down the test track on the straightaway at 150 mph just like the LS400, LS430 and LS460 are able to do? And do it with effortlessly with whisper quiet Lexus no fuss capability?

German engineers don't worry about 10 year owners, they worry about 120 and 150 mph owners and design their cars for that purpose. Toyota thinks about 10 year, 15 year and 25 year owners.

But regardless of how well this LS drives, handles and will run till the end of time - the styling issues cannot be overcome. It looks the way it does, because it was styled by a committee of focus groups, executives and assorted scattered ideas.

Toys4RJill

I think the new LS will be quieter, handle better, and be more reliable. The reviews will be stellar.

mmarshall

I haven't heard that phrase before, but that's a good way of putting it. I like that.


You get your first "Thanks" button.

coolsaber

Lets put this way, Lexus has made some clutch vehicles in the past decade. Lexus GS, better to drive then the infamous record holder the 5 series. Did it do well? Nope those things were being basically full of trunk money, while the poor handling F10 5 series was minting notes for BMW.

Lexus RC-F, GS-F considered at launch a formidable competitor (although once the press got hold of it....) to the M3 and 5s etc but uniquely Lexus.....Lets not open those can of worms.

The takeway from all those examples is, if they decide to push up against an already weak sedan market to above the higher priced competitors expect this to be a good year for buyers 12 months from launch aka deals of the century. If Lexus has a slight price hike, but plays relatively in the same bracket, oh hell yea, no trunk money and good volume of return and conquest customers since the tech is mostly there, and lets be honest your other option if your a "value conscious" buyer is small ghibli or pannny or down into a genesis...Skip that in, and head over to a real brand like Lexus

TangoRed

Conversely, many people would say the Lexus LS offers no compelling reason for purchase over the class stalwart, the S-class. The S-class typically premiers class leading technology, has the panache, comes in many more trim/model variations, some people prefer the more classic styling, and will be getting rid of the car in 4 years or so resale 10 years later is a non-issue.

So not that strong of an argument, and why we live in this brilliant world that gives us choice! The LS will indeed be a fine and welcome challenger in the D-segment luxury car realm. I think reviewers and the market alike will really resonate this car in some areas.

I don't think the interior is ground breaking, but its so distinctly Lexus that I can't help but like it. I'm right there with you on the fancy Asian hotel comment. I love the interior door design especially, just like you. I think BMW could've gone farther with the design of the G11, and that's just going to come in sharper focus by the time Audi A8 (exterior aside) and the new Jaguar XJ get here.

That is so incredibly false. You act as if the S-class has never been roundly criticized by the media/internet before. The Europeans initially hated the W140, the W220 was immediately called out before its pre-facelift interior quality [and later reliability], and the W221 drew the ire of many on these very forums due in regards to its pronounced fenders. I distinctly remember people screaming "It looks Korean!" when they saw the W221's fenders at debut time. There was also a lot of discussion about how the dash took on a distinctly BMW E65-inspired design motif.

When the W222 debuted its interior design just resonated with a lot of people and that's why many consider it the segment bearer. I'm not how you can call it generic when people seem to instantly recognize it as a Mercedes design.

And why would you save money and just get an E-class? What kind of comment is that? You're not getting S-class grade rear seats, trim, refinement, Magic Body Control, and material quality on an E-class. The E-class is also missing a regular V8 option; that's AMG-only now.

I see nothing to suggest the car will handle better than an MBC equipped S-class or similarly equipped 7-series, but OK. I don't think we can call that one just yet. Quieter and more reliable, sure.

AJT123

I've truly enjoyed reading this thread over the last day. Lots of interesting viewpoints and opinions, and I spend so much time reading on here (you wouldn't think it from my post count) that I almost knew what to expect from some based on their logic and viewpoints.

I think, now, you really can't call an LS boring, and that may have been the point here. If there's one thing I will conclusively say about the car, so far, is that it ain't boring.

The interior has grown on me a bit, in the side by side pics of this and S550, the new LS interior makes the S550 look....boring. The materials and overall luxury feel will easily meet if not exceed the S Class I am willing to bet. The doors are amazing, with the lines and panel of wood, and the bright white (Japanese lantern inspired) ambient lighting under the armrest. I want to see more of this lighting and more shots in the dark. I still don't like the gauge cluster; I stand by what I said earlier that it looks awkward and silly to have a fancy leather stitched(?) digital gauge right next to plain-Jane fuel and temp gauges, and it looks awkward how it's elevated. The guitar string thing going on is very pretty, although if they could use it with wood it would be better. Bottom line is Lexus knows how to do flagship luxury right and I don't think this will disappoint. I just didn't know what to think yesterday and now that I've digested it the interior actually looks quite nice.

The outside I'm still not sold on yet but I will say it does look pretty bad-a$$ from behind, and the fact that it's a lonnnnng car now, standard, I do like. From the side it looks like an Infiniti M56 which is a pretty car, but not anything worth aspiring over. The windows are horrible, the design of the rears. The front of the car I just don't know. That grill is something. All I thought yesterday at first was how this makes the current LS460 look very pretty, and I still strongly feel that way. Ask me again in a week or a month and I might feel differently (after all, I've warmed to the interior), but I'm not totally sold on this car as being a looker. I miss clean lines and 5 spoke rims, etc. There is just a lot going on here. I do like it from directly behind, though.

No V8 is unforgivable. It's a shame to the car's heritage. The LS has been known for its silky-smooth V8 motor since the beginning, seriously. Why they couldn't at least offer the quite luscious 5.0 V8 they already have using in the LC is truly beyond me. A V6 motor won't purr like any good V8, let alone the LS'. Were I in the market, I would be very put-off by this. I want a V8 engine in my flagship luxury car, simple as that.

I will say though that I'm hopeful this car will drive quite well. Can't wait to see a road test and especially a comparison test eventually. I do know that I'll go to Lexus instead of Toyota for my next oil change as soon as these cars arrive so I can check out in person!

Bottom line though, it's not a boring car. Lexus really can't be called boring anymore. They have successfully accomplished shifting their image IMHO. (And for the record, I'm a huge fan of Lexus' "boring" cars.)

I'm sure this is a great car....minus not offering the V8.

peteharvey

Yes Steve, there are so many different subjective opinions on RX and LS styling etc.
At the end of the day, the way we ultimately resolve all these differences in opinion is to look at the "sales".
Ultimately, we're either going to buy the car, or not? Right?
As a bonus, the sales is a far more concrete, objective and quantitative fact.

Back in 1995, I always thought that the 2LS would do well, but apparently it only managed 23k units on its debut year!





Likewise in 2001, I thought the 3LS430 was rather conservative and corny in styling, yet it amassed 33,000 units on its debut year!







Lately, under the new management of Akio Toyoda, TMC's styling has been rather out of sorts, just like this wild looking, yet poor selling Toyota Mirai below.






Steve, I can only hope that I'm wrong about the all new 2017-24 5LS500; may be the 5LS will prove to be a great alrounder and follow LS tradition by selling like hot cakes on its debut year to prove Peter Harvey all wrong.
So far, I think the 5LS has a nice nose, a nice interior, with massive space, and a very fuel and handling efficient 3.5L TT.
Though I'm surprized Lexus couldn't shave off hundreds of pounds with their new TNA platform.
I have no idea how Akio Toyoda intends to set the 5LS' ride/handling compromize; I felt that my 4GS was too firm and noisy - satisfactory, but I would have preferred better...

G Star

iTrader: (2)

In the luxury space, many consumers are obsessed with being different and getting attention and no doubt in my mind will some of the S Class, 7 series, Panamera buyers look at Lexus now where they did not in the past. This I feel is exactly the position that Lexus is trying to be in and they may succeed with this daring new design.

These type of buyers won't be comparing, 0-60 times, v8 vs v6 or dimensions. They will say that looks bold, I'm bold, I'm buying this. There has also been a slowdown in current gen LS sales so there are far less newer LS' on the road, I predict there will be a natural market reaction to this new LS, sales will be good initially, and enough sales to balance the road population of this segment of cars. Nobody has really challenged the S Class in the last few years.

While there are some very mild (there but not there) new Infinity design language cues, its hard to tell for most people and you really have to see it from the side profile angle to see it, you also have to be a car fanatic, which 99% of car buyers are not.

I also feel a lot of forum members, in a time of excitement or hysteria are completely forgetting the fact that none of us will ever see the car the way we see the photos. You're seeing these photos typically from ground level but cars are not designed for ground level viewing, they're designed for average human height level viewing (5ft and up, with most men averaging 5'7+). All of you will see the car from a different angle that is the reason why so many people get so hysterical in the beginning (ground photos) and change their minds about the way cars look and how acceptable/attractive they look after seeing it in person (human eye level viewing).

Step outside of forum life for a second and think like a mainstream buyer.



I think BrownPride is onto something here with the Mandarin Oriental-ish asian inspired design. The door panel looks beautiful, like the layers of an asian fan.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Thanks for the video @ISFPOWER.

Lexus is starting to get more expressive. The 3D grill is pretty captivating, as is the lighting. I'd bet Europe gets the cool adaptive headlight to our auto high beams but I digress . The sweeping interior is pretty bold and reminiscent of a few key competitors, but it looks nice enough with the Lexus Takumi touch. I really hope Lexus rethought the trackpad interface on the LS and LC. The NX and RC are rather clunky. The LS and LC will have the latest Gen10 navigation For what it's worth the rear seat also incorporating a touchscreen for climate and audio control on the fold away arm rest rather than physical buttons. Overall I'm exited it finally here! If this is the beginning of a decade long relationship with the 5the gen LS, this is a good starting point. New trims, packages, powertrains, colors, AWD, and technology will be coming. Lexus is the like the Tortoise.. slow and steady