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2014 J.D. Power Initial Quality Study

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Old Jun 28, 2014 | 09:54 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Buick #1 in the 2009 Vehicle Dependability study? And well above the industry average in all four years? So much for those who say that GM is still making junk. Lincoln, to its credit, also ranked well above the industry average all four years....despite making what IMO are some rather unimpressive vehicles.
Consumer Reports rates the Reliability of the Buick brand as Average. Not bad, but not stellar either. It is an improvement over past years though.
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Old Jun 28, 2014 | 02:00 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
the results are meaningless. There is no verification process for JD. I just got a survey for my new Corolla purchase. I fudged the numbers to make it look like my Corolla was the worst ever new car experience?? I said it won't start after just three days of ownership. Just for fun I did it.
Haha yeah right. How do you know I faked the survey? You see how pointless they are , there is no verification process.
Lying on a CR survey is just as simple as with JD. Fortunately, though, CR and JD both represent a fairly credible (and honest) group of people overall. Most people are honest enough that if they know they deliberately lie about something actually done on the honor system (like surveys), they would have problems falling asleep at night. CR and JD sometimes come up with different results for the same vehicles, but that is generally due to differences in how they word and interpret the surveys.,

Last edited by mmarshall; Jun 28, 2014 at 02:04 PM.
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Old Jun 28, 2014 | 02:01 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by LexBob2
Consumer Reports rates the Reliability of the Buick brand as Average. Not bad, but not stellar either. It is an improvement over past years though.
I wonder if the inflated reliability reports are skewed higher due to the much older Buick buyers who do not drive their cars as much.
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Old Jun 28, 2014 | 02:06 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by LexBob2
Consumer Reports rates the Reliability of the Buick brand as Average. Not bad, but not stellar either. It is an improvement over past years though.
One thing that helps Buicks is that they usually are not driven very aggressively. With a generally older and more mature database than many other makes, usually the cars are not driven hard enough to put a lot of stress and excess wear on their components. Even younger drivers, when they own or drive Buicks, tend not to push them.
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Old Jun 28, 2014 | 02:17 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
I wonder if the inflated reliability reports are skewed higher due to the much older Buick buyers who do not drive their cars as much.
I'm sure the survey results reflect the driving style of the owners. I thought it was interesting that the lowest rated Buick in CR for reliability is the LaCrosse V6. Probably the senior mobile of the lineup.
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Old Jun 28, 2014 | 02:30 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by LexBob2
I'm sure the survey results reflect the driving style of the owners. I thought it was interesting that the lowest rated Buick in CR for reliability is the LaCrosse V6. Probably the senior mobile of the lineup.


The Verano and Regal use Opel frames/bodies, interiors, and chassis, which, to an extent, separates them from other American-market Buick designs. Both the Opel Astra and Insignia, which they are derived from, have good reputations in Europe. The Lacrosse comes from the same platform as the Chevy Impala and the Cadillac XTS.
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Old Jun 28, 2014 | 02:43 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
The Verano and Regal use Opel frames/bodies, interiors, and chassis, which, to an extent, separates them from other American-market Buick designs. Both the Opel Astra and Insignia, which they are derived from, have good reputations in Europe. The Lacrosse comes from the same platform as the Chevy Impala and the Cadillac XTS.
That might not bode well for the reliability of the XTS and new Impala.

I didn't notice how the Verano's cousin, the Cruze was doing.
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Old Jun 28, 2014 | 03:46 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
The Verano and Regal use Opel frames/bodies, interiors, and chassis, which, to an extent, separates them from other American-market Buick designs. Both the Opel Astra and Insignia, which they are derived from, have good reputations in Europe. The Lacrosse comes from the same platform as the Chevy Impala and the Cadillac XTS.
mmarshall , I question whether the Opel platform is going to make a difference. The Verano/Regal is made in the USA. Keep in the mind that GM once brought the Opel based Catera to North America and while the car was nicely appointed and rode well it suffered drastically for reliability. I doubt things have changed.
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Old Jun 28, 2014 | 03:50 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by LexBob2
That might not bode well for the reliability of the XTS and new Impala.

I didn't notice how the Verano's cousin, the Cruze was doing.
The Cruze is more like a brother or sister , not a cousin and not exactly a rebadge, but very close to a rebadge The Verano really is an upmarket Chevy Cruze.
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Old Jun 28, 2014 | 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
The Cruze is more like a brother or sister , not a cousin and not exactly a rebadge, but very close to a rebadge The Verano really is an upmarket Chevy Cruze.
Having driven both the Cruze and Verano when looking for a car for my son, my own view was that they do feel more like cousins than brother and sister. The Verano feels much more sophisticated and upscale. It feels better to drive, it has a much better interior and has better sound deadening. They feel different enough that if you didn't know they were related, you could be forgiven for assuming they weren't.
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Old Jun 28, 2014 | 06:21 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
mmarshall , I question whether the Opel platform is going to make a difference. The Verano/Regal is made in the USA. Keep in the mind that GM once brought the Opel based Catera to North America and while the car was nicely appointed and rode well it suffered drastically for reliability. I doubt things have changed.
I fully agree that the Catera was poorly-built and disappointing (I wasn't with CL in those days, but I did review and test-drive one). It was a rattle-and-squeak machine even brand-new, and had a reputation for defects. (the same platform was also used by the Saturn L-series and the early-generation Saab 9-5). The L-series, like the Catera, were also poorly-built, and likewise had rattles/squeaks and defects. Opel platforms, fortunately, like Hyundai/Kia, have improved tremendously in the 15 years since then, and are now well-respected in Europe.

BTW, I've owned a Verano for two full years now, put thousands of miles on it, and I can tell you first hand it is NOT a rebadged or redone Cruze. (I reviewed a Cruze, and I know the difference). The Verano combines German handling/steering with hush-hush Buick sound insulation, tight rattle-free construction, a GM 6-speed automatic (a more sophisticated and smoother-shifting unit than the cruder 6-speed in the Cruze), larger engines than the Cruze, and a more solid feel to the bodywork. That is because the Verano comes mostly from Opel Astra descent (using virtually the same chassis/interior), while the Cruze is taken more from a Daewoo platform, though still a rather good one by Daewoo standards.

That's not to say that the Verano is perfect. I'm objective, even with the cars I own. I'd like it even more with a small V6 instead of the Ecotec 2.4L four, and, at recommended PSI, the 45-series tires ride too firmly in cold weather for my tastes, though they are fine in the summer when the rubber in the tires is warmer and softer, and gives more over bumps.

(and, of course, we'll wait and see about the ignition switch .......but, so far, no recall for that.

Last edited by mmarshall; Jun 28, 2014 at 06:28 PM.
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Old Jun 28, 2014 | 06:38 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
I fully agree that the Catera was poorly-built and disappointing (I wasn't with CL in those days, but Iew and test-drive one). It was a rattle-and-squeak machine even brand-new, and had a reputation for defects. (the same platform was also used by the Saturn L-series and the early-generation Saab 9-5). The L-series, like the Catera, were also poorly-built, and likewise had rattles/squeaks and defects. Opel platforms, fortunately, like Hyundai/Kia, have improved tremendously in the 15 years since then, and are now well-respected in Europe.

BTW, I've owned a Verano for two full years now, put thousands of miles on it, and I can tell you first hand it is NOT a rebadged or redone Cruze. (I reviewed a Cruze, and I know the difference). The Verano combines German handling/steering with hush-hush Buick sound insulation, tight rattle-free construction, a GM 6-speed automatic (a more sophisticated and smoother-shifting unit than the cruder 6-speed in the Cruze), larger engines than the Cruze, and a more solid feel to the bodywork. That is because the Verano comes mostly from Opel Astra descent (using virtually the same chassis/interior), while the Cruze is taken more from a Daewoo platform, though still a rather good one by Daewoo standards.

That's not to say that the Verano is perfect. I'm objective, even with the cars I own. I'd like it even more with a small V6 instead of the Ecotec 2.4L four, and, at recommended PSI, the 45-series tires ride too firmly in cold weather for my tastes, though they are fine in the summer when the rubber in the tires is warmer and softer, and gives more over bumps.

(and, of course, we'll wait and see about the ignition switch .......but, so far, no recall for that.
mmarshall, are you saying that the Verano and Cruze are not related?

I never said it was a full rebadge, I said they were closely related, like a brother or a sister. Not quite twins of course LOL.

Most legit publications make the correct claim that the Verano is based off the Cruze.
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Old Jun 28, 2014 | 06:55 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
mmarshall, are you saying that the Verano and Cruze are not related?
Only very loosely at most. It is definitely closer to the Astra. See for yourself.

Astra:



Verano:


Last edited by mmarshall; Jun 28, 2014 at 07:03 PM.
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Old Jun 28, 2014 | 07:17 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Only very loosely at most. It is definitely closer to the Astra. See for yourself.

Astra:



Verano:

It looks like the Verano is a rebadged Astra. Both based off the Chevy Cruze
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Old Jun 28, 2014 | 07:38 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
It looks like the Verano is a rebadged Astra. Both based off the Chevy Cruze
The Astra and Cruze, though, come from different origins. The Cruze is more Daewoo-devived, the Astra is more of a classic German product.

I never said it was a full rebadge, I said they were closely related, like a brother or a sister. Not quite twins of course.
Yes, I realize that. I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise. You and I disagree often enough, as it is, that I won't try and add to it by claiming you made statements you didn't make.

Most legit publications make the correct claim that the Verano is based off the Cruze.
Here. You seem to like the autoblog comments/reviews that Hoovey posts. Here's what they have to say about both the current and future Verano/Astra relationship. Both, in fact, come from the Delta II platform.

A refresh to Buick's popular Verano sedan appears to be nigh, thanks to these spy photos that show the tweaked four-door testing in Germany.

As with the current Verano, the refreshed model will have a great deal in common with its European platform-mates, the Vauxhall/Opel Astra. Each car rides on General Motors's Delta II platform. Unlike the current car, though, the refreshed model's styling could lean more heavily towards its European roots, if these photos are any indication.

Despite its commonality with the Astra Sedan, the Verano has featured its own unique styling since arriving in the US back in 2011 as a 2012 model, with distinct fascias at both the front and back, as wells its own headlight and taillight designs. The two cars were still rebadged vehicles, but it was more subtle than it will be in 2015, when the refreshed Verano arrives. Astra-like elements are expected to dominate, particularly in regards to the headlights and taillights. That said, trademark Buick styling features will remain, like the waterfall grille. Really, then, the 2016 Verano won't be unlike the Regal – a rebadged Vauxhall/Opel Insignia, aside from a few very small styling details.

All said, we like the idea of the Astra's styling becoming a bigger part of the Verano's design. As compact vehicles go, it's one of the sharper offerings on European roads. Now, if we could only get GM to sell a Buick version of the hatchback, or perhaps a Verano GS based on the Astra OPC...
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