MM Full-Review: 2013 Cadillac ATS.
#31
Lexus Fanatic
What I meant was that it was basically the same (but not necessarily identical) engine and block. Yes, you're correct on the Ecotec II/III designations. Some of that, though, is simple mounting requirements. Longitudinal north/south engine-mounts do require some differences in the engine design vs. transverse east/west designs.
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As for the Verano/Regal 2.0t, they do not share the block either according to the part list at GM. They are not even basically the same.
Just for the record (and this is simply my personal opinion, not necessarily fact), I don't think that a car in the ATS class (or the Impala or the Regal, for that matter) should be stuck with four-cylinder engines at all, turbo or not. V6s should, IMO, standard in all three of these cars (The Verano's smaller engine-compartment mught not allow a V6 fit in well).
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 07-08-13 at 12:43 PM.
#32
Lexus Test Driver
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#33
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Actually mounting requirments has nothing at all to do with it and you are incorrect once again, the Malibu and ATS both share the brand new Ecotec III 2.0 motors, both are the same engines and the Malibu has in installed FWD transverse while the ATS is installed North/South RWD.
I am not really sure if you understand this segment, Audi/BMW and now Cadillac are offering turbo four's becuase of the driving feel, precieved perception and MPG. Smoothness/quietness is no longer a selling feature for this segment, you have totally missed that. The Lexus IS will be dropping the 2.5 for a new 4 cylinder turbo.
Respectfully, you have your opinion on this matter, and I have mine. As far as I'm concerned (again, respectfully) , let's leave it at that.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-08-13 at 06:19 PM.
#34
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
GM should be able to spit out enough engines. They are the single largest powertrain maker in the world. Period. Availability is no excuse.
As far as GM being the largest engine-buider in the world, I don't have the hard numbers on that, but I'd be surprised if they could (or did) turn out more engines worldwide than Toyota.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-08-13 at 06:41 PM.
#35
Lead Lap
force-fed fours are becoming popular simply because of CAFE and because they offer better mileage under low-throttle conditions than V6s do, not because of "driving feel". Although the classic VW/Audi 2.0L turbo, in both gas and TDI form, I'll admit, is a real gem of a powerplant and one of the rare exceptions, in general, fours simply don't offer V6 refinement.
Respectfully, you have your opinion on this matter, and I have mine. As far as I'm concerned (again, respectfully) , let's leave it at that.
Respectfully, you have your opinion on this matter, and I have mine. As far as I'm concerned (again, respectfully) , let's leave it at that.
#36
Lexus Fanatic
N/S and E/W engines obviously have to have different attachment-points and motor-mounts. it also affects how the exhaust manifold (s) have to be designed and how the engine-torque affects the front end of the car. Some of what you say, though, is correct.
I understand it. I simply don't agree with it. V6 engines, IMO, are still more suited for entry-level luxury cars than four-bangers. Force-fed fours are becoming popular simply because of CAFE and because they offer better mileage under low-throttle conditions than V6s do, not because of "driving feel". Although the classic VW/Audi 2.0L turbo, in both gas and TDI form, I'll admit, is a real gem of a powerplant and one of the rare exceptions, in general, fours simply don't offer V6 refinement.
Respectfully, you have your opinion on this matter, and I have mine. As far as I'm concerned (again, respectfully) , let's leave it at that.
I understand it. I simply don't agree with it. V6 engines, IMO, are still more suited for entry-level luxury cars than four-bangers. Force-fed fours are becoming popular simply because of CAFE and because they offer better mileage under low-throttle conditions than V6s do, not because of "driving feel". Although the classic VW/Audi 2.0L turbo, in both gas and TDI form, I'll admit, is a real gem of a powerplant and one of the rare exceptions, in general, fours simply don't offer V6 refinement.
Respectfully, you have your opinion on this matter, and I have mine. As far as I'm concerned (again, respectfully) , let's leave it at that.
Now, look a lexus, they are piping in noise into F sport models for perception that the driver hears.
Entry level sport sedans such as the ATS, IS, 3 series, and A4 (Verano/Regal are not entry nor are they sport sedans) are all about a specific driving experience and silence, smoothness, and refinement are not the first things on the list of what buyers want.
Anyway, you can have your opinion, I just think you are unsure of what you are talking about.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 07-08-13 at 08:54 PM.
#37
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
For those who are interested, BTW, Cadillac has a 36-month, $299-per-month lease special ($2779 down, for 30,000 miles total, or 10,000 miles a year) on 2013 ATS RWD 2.0T Preferred-Equipment models. Looks like maybe a decent deal for those who don't drive a whole lot of miles.
http://www.cadillac.com/pricing-offe...cadillac%20com
http://www.cadillac.com/pricing-offe...cadillac%20com
#38
Pole Position
Are you really going to compare the slowest V6 sedan in production with a turbo ATS? Let's be realistic, here, there is no comparison. Aside from the performance, the V6 in the Lexus has a refinement and smoothness that the Caddy can't touch. I think that's what Mike was referring to. He (mmarshall) is also a legendary member on this board and deserves more respect than you're giving him. I would trust his opinion over yours any day!!
#39
Are you really going to compare the slowest V6 sedan in production with a turbo ATS? Let's be realistic, here, there is no comparison. Aside from the performance, the V6 in the Lexus has a refinement and smoothness that the Caddy can't touch. I think that's what Mike was referring to. He (mmarshall) is also a legendary member on this board and deserves more respect than you're giving him. I would trust his opinion over yours any day!!
#41
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Blueprint
I do like that the ATS offers red leather.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-09-13 at 05:00 PM.
#42
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LOL
IMO, I think all these entry-level 4 cylinders selling for $40K are a joke. For $50K, I'd rather have a lightly-optioned GS than a loaded 4-clyinder ATS (or 3-series).
ATS and CTS are nice cars, but Cadillac are making fools of themselves by essentially trying to be the American, GM version of BMW. Whatever happened to luxury and V8s and being the standard of the world?
IMO, I think all these entry-level 4 cylinders selling for $40K are a joke. For $50K, I'd rather have a lightly-optioned GS than a loaded 4-clyinder ATS (or 3-series).
ATS and CTS are nice cars, but Cadillac are making fools of themselves by essentially trying to be the American, GM version of BMW. Whatever happened to luxury and V8s and being the standard of the world?
#43
LOL
IMO, I think all these entry-level 4 cylinders selling for $40K are a joke. For $50K, I'd rather have a lightly-optioned GS than a loaded 4-clyinder ATS (or 3-series).
ATS and CTS are nice cars, but Cadillac are making fools of themselves by essentially trying to be the American, GM version of BMW. Whatever happened to luxury and V8s and being the standard of the world?
IMO, I think all these entry-level 4 cylinders selling for $40K are a joke. For $50K, I'd rather have a lightly-optioned GS than a loaded 4-clyinder ATS (or 3-series).
ATS and CTS are nice cars, but Cadillac are making fools of themselves by essentially trying to be the American, GM version of BMW. Whatever happened to luxury and V8s and being the standard of the world?
#44
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by AdrianXT
IMO, I think all these entry-level 4 cylinders selling for $40K are a joke. For $50K, I'd rather have a lightly-optioned GS than a loaded 4-clyinder ATS (or 3-series).
ATS and CTS are nice cars, but Cadillac are making fools of themselves by essentially trying to be the American, GM version of BMW.
Whatever happened to luxury and V8s and being the standard of the world?
I share some of your concern, BTW, about big luxury cars with soft suspensions being more and more relegated to history. But, perhaps because of the same CAFE reasons that are now putting 2.0L turbo fours in entry-level Caddies and Lincolns, that may be why the big V8s are all disappearing. (I basically agree with Hoovey on that one). Also, the auto industry has convinced itself that ride-quality is of secondary importance to handling these days....or has tried to compromise ride/handling with electronically-adjustable suspensions and low-profile tires.
Two good things, though, about the new Cadillac XTS compared to Grandpa's old DTS....One, its interior, like that of the new CTS and ATS, is MUCH better in fit/fnish, and, Two, it has an AWD option that the DTS lacked. Same with Lincoln....the MKS flagship also has the AWD opton that the old Town Car lacked, though the MKS interior can't compare with its Cadillac competition. And neither of these new Cadillac/Lincoln flagships, IMO, ride anywhere near as well as their predecessors did.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-09-13 at 06:59 PM.
#45
Lexus Fanatic
Are you really going to compare the slowest V6 sedan in production with a turbo ATS? Let's be realistic, here, there is no comparison. Aside from the performance, the V6 in the Lexus has a refinement and smoothness that the Caddy can't touch. I think that's what Mike was referring to. He (mmarshall) is also a legendary member on this board and deserves more respect than you're giving him. I would trust his opinion over yours any day!!
The standard 2.5 I4 does not compete with the 2.5 V6, it is the 2.0 turbo model that competes with the 2.5 V6.
1. You cannot get the 2.5 I4 in AWD or top tier packages. You can get both the 2.0t and 2.5V6 in all packages. You cannot get premium or performance models of the 2.5I4, but you can get the top package as well as an F sport package with the IS 2.5.
2. AWD is not available with the 2.5 I4. AWD is available with the Lexus 2.5 and the 2.0 Caddy Turbo.
Finally, as you starting building your options on either the ATS or IS you won't go to far with the 2.5I4.
You can get a fully loaded 2014 Is 2.5 in either RWD or AWD, you can't do that with the 2.5 I4 Caddy.
Such misinformation from some of you guys.