LexFather

Data told movie/television directors/producers that people's attention wanted if they kept the scene and viewpoint the same for too long? How long, lol seconds. That is why today on T.V and movies the viewpoints change so often where its like they are blinking at you. To keep your attention.

I say that to say its the same thing with cars and people today want new, they want different, they don't want the same thing for too long. Sure certain designs age far better than others but its rare that a car relatively unchanged sells well for 5-10 years.

Mind you all these designers go to the same schools as the engineers. They are all applying the same learnings to different companies. That is why every bloody car has some giant grill, b/c they learned that is how you make a corporate identity.

There was much news a few years ago when the last gen Camry debuted 4 1/2 years after the previous gen, a lot of new techniques were developed to make that happen. Companies also now have the ability to move quicker based on demands of consumers, and this means designs change more frequently.

mmarshall

I wouldn't say all that rare. The Mini, VW New Beetle, PT Cruiser, and Miata were all popular, without major styling changes, for years.

Agreed...it's probably a marketing-ident issue (and, to be honest, IMO, my own Verano's classic Buick waterfall grille is probably a little more garish than necessary).



My point, though, is that, IMO, a company does not need to overdo the front grilles like Audi/Buick/Lexus/Mitsubishi for a corporate-identity....or do ludicrous bumper-to-bumper styling like on large American cars of the late 1950s. It can be done with something as simple as a hood-ornament....and decades ago, we saw them on many vehicles that have long-since ditched them. I was always a fan of hood ornaments myself. Pedestrian-impact standards (and the tendency for teen-age kids with nothing better to do than breaking them off and collecting them) pretty much led to their demise, though a few luxury-makes like Jaguar and Rolls-Royce still offer them as an option or with power-systems that bury them under the hood when the car is parked. I think that, if the engineers put their minds to it, they could probably come up with a system, without complex power-mini-doors like on a Rolls, that addresses both the pedestrian-impact and teenage-theft issues.

Toys4RJill

I will agree with you on what you are saying, buyers want something new. Toyota/Lexus were usually less focused on minor changes throughtout the years, however they are now consistent with the other manufacturers.

As for the giant corporate grille, that is something that has become a trend in recent years, just like the mouse type controller and the most recent trend of LED daytime lights.

In order to compete with Audi, BMW and MB, Lexus needed to change and they did that when the CT came out and it was followed with the GS.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

perhaps the big grill also has to do with absurd european pedestrian safety regs.

designs age also because new materials, manufacturing methods and technologies become available - things that simply couldn't be done before. a good example would be lighting - we all know how headlights and tail lights have changed dramatically in recent years, allowing different front, rear and even side profiles. a new car today without some kind of led outside is kinda weak.

Toys4RJill

Actually, you are completely wrong. A corporate identitiy is essential for a brand like Lexus, BMW, or Audi. These brands are not model specific like they used to, when you step inside a Lexus you now step into a design that is the same throughout the lineup, same thing with Audi and BMW, a little less so with MB. Lexus finally changed to this strategy when sales tanked in 2011 or so.

In contrast, when you but a Toyota, you are also buying the sub brand, a Tundra or Camry etc. With a few expections there are powerful branding within the brand such as Land Cruiser or even more powerful, Pruis.

Cadillac was smart to get away from the naming of there cars, now its Cadillac with a few letters to explain the product. Just like Land Cruiser, there is the exception of Escalade which Cadillac will never go away from.

Now, I look a Buick, here is a weak brand that has a corporate identity but lacks the branding power to get away from names such as verano, lacrosse or regal. I can't imagine a Buick selling with names like B350 etc. Buick is not luxury anyway.

Infiniti was smart to go to a new naming system with Q10, Q20 etc, whether or not it will be a success remains to be seen but it was clear the previous naming was not working anymore.

As for something like a hood ornament, that would never fly, its 2013 and the luxury makers have moved on from that.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

A corporate idenity is essential for any automaker. With some more mainstream you can get away with little tweaks here and there but the overall execution at least reminices the brand. Niche models tend to break that mold though, for example a FJ Cruiser and 4Runner have very different interiors despite both being from the same brand and both being manufactured with off-raod prowess.

Lexus sales tanked for several reasons including the earthquake and tsunami, but also the product. L-Finesse though good looking brought with it for 2006/2007 model years a level of poor quality materials, fit and finish and assembly - that in turn led to unreliability not seen in older Lexus's. 2013 GS turned it around, but models like the 2013 ES show that Lexus is still a mixed bag.

Agreed. Escalade is a strong name with good recognition. Linocoln will most likely keep Navigator as well which is perfectly fine.

GM kept Buick for a reason over Pontiac (which was dying - but shame since the G8 was bucking the trend) and Saturn because Buick is an upscale premium brand (not luxury) that probvides a good step between a Chevy and a Cadillac. Not to mention the Chinese market for Buick is a cash cow for GM. Buick has a strong identitiy and won't go quietly, especially with new product coming out including a convertible and ressurecting names like Riviera and Grand National.

The problem is not with the nomenclature for Infiniti, but 1. the marketing, and 2 the product itself. They are decent cars that are easily forgotten after a year of release, some more than others. The company has two sedans and four SUVs??? Many of the controls on lowerpriced models are easily from a parts bin shared with Nissan which doesn't add much to the "luxury" aspect. The G37/Q50 coming looks to be very competent as their vehicles are, but if the marketing doesn't nail it and they don't produce a flagship, more coupes/verts and perhaps a hatch, or consider hybrid/diesel tech they should just consider jumping ship.

Jaguar, Mercedes and uber luxury automaker Rolls Royce still offer hood ornaments. All hail the Jag leaper, Tri-star, and Spirit of Ecstasy!

LexFather

Thanks Hoovey......

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

You've responded on my behalf before hah

I'm like the voice of reason

xsh0tya

You forgot Porsche.

trexlexus

The rest of your post makes sense, but sometimes, it looks like Infiniti is comfortable playing in that "near" Top Level arena. To me, they seem kinda like Acura. Japan's big 3 luxuries have sort of played as a team to allow Lexus to take the spot as alpha. Not sure if there is some secret plan to do that in the Japanese government, but it is very coincidental that BOTH Inf/Acu don't have flagships and do not offer a "full lineup" like Lexus/MB/BMW. There are glaring holes in the other Japanese brands.

With the powerful backing of Honda/Nissan, you would think they would've done something by now.

Japan's Lexus takes on USA's Cadillac and Europe's BMW/MB/Audi/Jag
Japan's Acura/Infiniti fights USA's Buick/Lincoln, and Europe's Volvo

Very strategic competition if looked at that way.

p.s. The talks about Infiniti's planned flagship are very interesting...

Fizzboy7

In response to the OP's question, change is necessary because technology is changing fast. The dashboards of 1995 cannot house all the new features and tech that has recently sprouted.

Exterior- safety standards have changed. A lot of today's bodywork is influenced by new safety regulations.
Exterior- improved aerodynamics and the relentless quest for better fuel economy constantly tweaks exterior details.

Competition- way more fierce today, with an (over)abundance of brands, redundant models, and niche vehicles for just about everything. With so many fish in the sea, if you don't stand out some or stay fresh, you get lost.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I get where you're coming from. I feel though that rather than be content, they need to light a fire back into their competitive spirit. It's hard for Lexus to gain any respect among European luxury makes if other Japanese makes don't help hold the luxury banner. Both companies Acura and Infiniti were intended to take on the prestigious luxury market while Honda and Nissan could remain mainstream. Problem is not enough distinction and overly plenty parts sharing discredits them. The lack of aggressiveness to match toe to toe. Few answers to Europe's arsenal of luxury and pedigree. We'll see what the future holds

mmarshall

Wait. I didn't say that corporate identity was not necessary at all (although I think it has been way overplayed recently). I just feel there are more (and sometimes better ) ways to do it than with Linda-Lovelace grilles.

Alphabet-soup in the naming of cars can get confusing, even for professional auto journalists and people like us here in CAR CHAT who follow those names every day. Lincoln is (arguably) the worst offender....most of what they sell starts with the same letter....."MK" (MKX, MKZ, MKT, MKZ).

Buick's sales are steadily rising...and not just among geriatrics. As you note, though, Buick has generally avoided alphabet-soup names, except for GS, GN, and GNX.

Those hood-ornaments did fly for many decades. I don't think it was simply a matter of time, or of them being so-called "outdated" that made for their demise, but the pedestrian-impact standards. The engineers (though their minds and resources were certainly capable of it) probably just didn't want to fool around designing inexpensive, pedestrian-safe ornaments that were easy to produce and install....they have been tied up with the latest CAFE/emissions demands.


Notice, though, that the (arguably) most expensive luxury car of all (Rolls-Royce) not only still provides the beautiful Flying-Lady up front, but also provides a drop-down mechanism to protect it from thieves and vandals. Of course, a device like that is made possible by the six-figure cost of these cars....but less-expensive versions could be done.

GRPFAN

Weren't they having a lot of trouble with those hood ornaments being stolen and a big insurance claim also??

Toys4RJill

Yes, agree 100% and more than ever the car market has become even more retail than ever before.

Infiniti was correct in changing the model naming from a G250 or M350 to Q50/Q60/Q70 etc. It was the smartest thing they have done in years since introducing the Q56 model.

Now, Lexus sales became to seriously suffer in and around 2011, Audi the clear leader in vehicle identity or corporate look set the tone for the others like Lexus or BMW to follow.

While the spindle grille is good, I think it will need to still evolve a little more, the design language if the interior is now finally consistent among the models in the lineup and I think the interiors are superb.

I really like how Lexus went from an Acura/Infiniti vehicle model specific style design to change to a corporate look that is consistent thoughout the lineup which is on par with the Germans.

But you are right, it is more fierce than ever before.