GS F; FT-HT and XSE among Trademark Filings For Toyota Motor Corporation
03-28-13, 09:50 AM
#61
Lead Lap
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Much of this conversation has been hashed and rehashed in earlier GS F threads but my sentiments are that I would like to see Lexus build a ~550+hp GS F first and foremost. If they do not, I still won't be disappointed because I think the car can be very competitive, even with a horsepower disadvantage. The M5 is in a weak spot right now, the E63 is great but very expensive and the S6 has 420 hp. If I had to pick a sedan currently sold in that category, it would be the XF-R, but that seems to be much lower volume than the others.
03-28-13, 10:00 AM
#62
Pole Position
I've said this before but it bears repeating.
I'm betting the GS-F is hybrid.
Clue 1 : Toyota has proved that it can make performance hybrids to rival Audi during the 24 hour Le Mans endurance race. ( see : Toyota TS030 Hybrid )
Clue 2 : all the automotive scoops seem to suggest a 5L gasoline engine GS-F with engine hp just slightly more than the IS-F. That is seemingly a suicidal decision from a marketing perspective when the flagship performance car has the same hp as its little brother.An M5/RS6/E63 AMG does not have the same hp as an M3/RS4/C63 AMG.
Clue 3 : The US, the single biggest Lexus market in the world does not get the GS450h F-Sport even though the GS450h F-sport combines F-Sport handling with the instantaneous low-end torque of Lexus Hybrid Synergy drivetrain.
Clue 4 : Toyota/Lexus is betting its farm on Hybrid, essentially making Hybrid an inextricable part of Lexus DNA. It would look odd if its flagship GS isn't hybrid.
Explanation that ties everything together : Yes, the GS-F will have a NA V8 gasoline engine making about 400+ hp but what the scoops probably missed is that the engine is PART OF a hybrid drivetrain. A new performance oriented hybrid drivetrain that incorporates tech from the TS030 Hybrid. Total system hp and torque will probably easily exceed 500hp and make the Germans squeamish. All while escaping Gas Guzzler Tax.
Probably explains why US doesn't yet have GS450h F-Sport : it might steal the shock and awe of a GS-F unveiling in the US market when there's already a little brother essentially providing the same combo of F-Sport + hybrid ( albeit to a lesser degree) in a GS450h F-Sport.
I foresee the US getting the GS450h F-Sport at the same time as the GS-F, where the marketing slant will be : can't/won't afford the GS-F? Never mind, you can get its cheaper, more fuel economical little brother, the GS450h F-Sport!!!
See, there's a method to Lexus' madness
I'm betting the GS-F is hybrid.
Clue 1 : Toyota has proved that it can make performance hybrids to rival Audi during the 24 hour Le Mans endurance race. ( see : Toyota TS030 Hybrid )
Clue 2 : all the automotive scoops seem to suggest a 5L gasoline engine GS-F with engine hp just slightly more than the IS-F. That is seemingly a suicidal decision from a marketing perspective when the flagship performance car has the same hp as its little brother.An M5/RS6/E63 AMG does not have the same hp as an M3/RS4/C63 AMG.
Clue 3 : The US, the single biggest Lexus market in the world does not get the GS450h F-Sport even though the GS450h F-sport combines F-Sport handling with the instantaneous low-end torque of Lexus Hybrid Synergy drivetrain.
Clue 4 : Toyota/Lexus is betting its farm on Hybrid, essentially making Hybrid an inextricable part of Lexus DNA. It would look odd if its flagship GS isn't hybrid.
Explanation that ties everything together : Yes, the GS-F will have a NA V8 gasoline engine making about 400+ hp but what the scoops probably missed is that the engine is PART OF a hybrid drivetrain. A new performance oriented hybrid drivetrain that incorporates tech from the TS030 Hybrid. Total system hp and torque will probably easily exceed 500hp and make the Germans squeamish. All while escaping Gas Guzzler Tax.
Probably explains why US doesn't yet have GS450h F-Sport : it might steal the shock and awe of a GS-F unveiling in the US market when there's already a little brother essentially providing the same combo of F-Sport + hybrid ( albeit to a lesser degree) in a GS450h F-Sport.
I foresee the US getting the GS450h F-Sport at the same time as the GS-F, where the marketing slant will be : can't/won't afford the GS-F? Never mind, you can get its cheaper, more fuel economical little brother, the GS450h F-Sport!!!
See, there's a method to Lexus' madness
Last edited by natnut; 03-28-13 at 10:09 AM.
03-28-13, 10:57 AM
#64
I've said this before but it bears repeating.
I'm betting the GS-F is hybrid.
Clue 2 : all the automotive scoops seem to suggest a 5L gasoline engine GS-F with engine hp just slightly more than the IS-F. That is seemingly a suicidal decision from a marketing perspective when the flagship performance car has the same hp as its little brother.An M5/RS6/E63 AMG does not have the same hp as an M3/RS4/C63 AMG.
I'm betting the GS-F is hybrid.
Clue 2 : all the automotive scoops seem to suggest a 5L gasoline engine GS-F with engine hp just slightly more than the IS-F. That is seemingly a suicidal decision from a marketing perspective when the flagship performance car has the same hp as its little brother.An M5/RS6/E63 AMG does not have the same hp as an M3/RS4/C63 AMG.
03-28-13, 11:40 AM
#66
I've said this before but it bears repeating.
I'm betting the GS-F is hybrid.
Clue 1 : Toyota has proved that it can make performance hybrids to rival Audi during the 24 hour Le Mans endurance race. ( see : Toyota TS030 Hybrid )
Clue 2 : all the automotive scoops seem to suggest a 5L gasoline engine GS-F with engine hp just slightly more than the IS-F. That is seemingly a suicidal decision from a marketing perspective when the flagship performance car has the same hp as its little brother.An M5/RS6/E63 AMG does not have the same hp as an M3/RS4/C63 AMG.
Clue 3 : The US, the single biggest Lexus market in the world does not get the GS450h F-Sport even though the GS450h F-sport combines F-Sport handling with the instantaneous low-end torque of Lexus Hybrid Synergy drivetrain.
Clue 4 : Toyota/Lexus is betting its farm on Hybrid, essentially making Hybrid an inextricable part of Lexus DNA. It would look odd if its flagship GS isn't hybrid.
Explanation that ties everything together : Yes, the GS-F will have a NA V8 gasoline engine making about 400+ hp but what the scoops probably missed is that the engine is PART OF a hybrid drivetrain. A new performance oriented hybrid drivetrain that incorporates tech from the TS030 Hybrid. Total system hp and torque will probably easily exceed 500hp and make the Germans squeamish. All while escaping Gas Guzzler Tax.
Probably explains why US doesn't yet have GS450h F-Sport : it might steal the shock and awe of a GS-F unveiling in the US market when there's already a little brother essentially providing the same combo of F-Sport + hybrid ( albeit to a lesser degree) in a GS450h F-Sport.
I foresee the US getting the GS450h F-Sport at the same time as the GS-F, where the marketing slant will be : can't/won't afford the GS-F? Never mind, you can get its cheaper, more fuel economical little brother, the GS450h F-Sport!!!
See, there's a method to Lexus' madness
I'm betting the GS-F is hybrid.
Clue 1 : Toyota has proved that it can make performance hybrids to rival Audi during the 24 hour Le Mans endurance race. ( see : Toyota TS030 Hybrid )
Clue 2 : all the automotive scoops seem to suggest a 5L gasoline engine GS-F with engine hp just slightly more than the IS-F. That is seemingly a suicidal decision from a marketing perspective when the flagship performance car has the same hp as its little brother.An M5/RS6/E63 AMG does not have the same hp as an M3/RS4/C63 AMG.
Clue 3 : The US, the single biggest Lexus market in the world does not get the GS450h F-Sport even though the GS450h F-sport combines F-Sport handling with the instantaneous low-end torque of Lexus Hybrid Synergy drivetrain.
Clue 4 : Toyota/Lexus is betting its farm on Hybrid, essentially making Hybrid an inextricable part of Lexus DNA. It would look odd if its flagship GS isn't hybrid.
Explanation that ties everything together : Yes, the GS-F will have a NA V8 gasoline engine making about 400+ hp but what the scoops probably missed is that the engine is PART OF a hybrid drivetrain. A new performance oriented hybrid drivetrain that incorporates tech from the TS030 Hybrid. Total system hp and torque will probably easily exceed 500hp and make the Germans squeamish. All while escaping Gas Guzzler Tax.
Probably explains why US doesn't yet have GS450h F-Sport : it might steal the shock and awe of a GS-F unveiling in the US market when there's already a little brother essentially providing the same combo of F-Sport + hybrid ( albeit to a lesser degree) in a GS450h F-Sport.
I foresee the US getting the GS450h F-Sport at the same time as the GS-F, where the marketing slant will be : can't/won't afford the GS-F? Never mind, you can get its cheaper, more fuel economical little brother, the GS450h F-Sport!!!
See, there's a method to Lexus' madness
GT Channel posits that the LF-LC will be the inspiration for a coupe in the Lexus LS price bracket with a choice of either the 4.2-liter V8 or the hybrid powertrain from the LS 600h, further speculating it will be called LC 550 and cost more than $100,000. It then says that there would be another coupe created beneath that one to replace the SC 430. Lexus Enthusiast, however, calls those "warmed-over rumors" and says that the marque probably won't deviate from its engine-capacity-naming scheme – labeling a car with a 4.2-liter V8 an LC 550. Nor does it think Lexus will use the letters LC after the company has trademarked "RC" in the US and Australia.
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/28/l...or-production/
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/28/l...or-production/
03-28-13, 01:48 PM
#67
Lexus Fanatic
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: A better place
Posts: 7,285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would be fine with 460hp or so. Hell I'd be fine with 350hp or so, the GS chassis is so good that is could use more power to make it even more fun.
500hp plus to me is all about really chasing a HP rating and marketing, it does not necessarily make a better or more useable car. It does make for faster track times to brag about.
500hp plus to me is all about really chasing a HP rating and marketing, it does not necessarily make a better or more useable car. It does make for faster track times to brag about.
If the car is light, and if it has supreme handling balance like the regular 4GS, then 500+ isn't needed, especially if it upsets the handling and chassis balance.
With supercapacitors instead of batteries, no they're not heavier.
04-01-13, 02:36 PM
#68
Driver
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: ca
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Via aid of hybrid batteries, supercapacitators, turbos, supercharger, jet pack strapped to the back, whatever; I think the majority of us would love to see a balanced 550hp+ GSF come into fruition. If your going to build one, build it right, or not at all. Having big Horsepower will sway those who already have the M5, RS6, and AMG to actually a look at what Lexus has to offer instead of just brushing it off and stay with their current German brands. Not the current trend of Lexus but in the past, Lexus has actually played with the big boys when it comes to HP and/or performance. In 92' the SC400 had 255hp, just shy of 15hp to the Asian Ferrari of it's era NSX having 270hp. In 98' if I'm not mistaken, the GS400 with a 300hp V8 was "The fastest automatic performance sedan in the world" according to this commercial....type "Lexus GS400 Commercial (Something Wicked)" on YouTube. Go big, go hard, or go home.
04-01-13, 03:14 PM
#69
Lead Lap
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've said this before but it bears repeating.
I'm betting the GS-F is hybrid.
Clue 1 : Toyota has proved that it can make performance hybrids to rival Audi during the 24 hour Le Mans endurance race. ( see : Toyota TS030 Hybrid )
Clue 2 : all the automotive scoops seem to suggest a 5L gasoline engine GS-F with engine hp just slightly more than the IS-F. That is seemingly a suicidal decision from a marketing perspective when the flagship performance car has the same hp as its little brother.An M5/RS6/E63 AMG does not have the same hp as an M3/RS4/C63 AMG.
Clue 3 : The US, the single biggest Lexus market in the world does not get the GS450h F-Sport even though the GS450h F-sport combines F-Sport handling with the instantaneous low-end torque of Lexus Hybrid Synergy drivetrain.
Clue 4 : Toyota/Lexus is betting its farm on Hybrid, essentially making Hybrid an inextricable part of Lexus DNA. It would look odd if its flagship GS isn't hybrid.
Explanation that ties everything together : Yes, the GS-F will have a NA V8 gasoline engine making about 400+ hp but what the scoops probably missed is that the engine is PART OF a hybrid drivetrain. A new performance oriented hybrid drivetrain that incorporates tech from the TS030 Hybrid. Total system hp and torque will probably easily exceed 500hp and make the Germans squeamish. All while escaping Gas Guzzler Tax.
Probably explains why US doesn't yet have GS450h F-Sport : it might steal the shock and awe of a GS-F unveiling in the US market when there's already a little brother essentially providing the same combo of F-Sport + hybrid ( albeit to a lesser degree) in a GS450h F-Sport.
I foresee the US getting the GS450h F-Sport at the same time as the GS-F, where the marketing slant will be : can't/won't afford the GS-F? Never mind, you can get its cheaper, more fuel economical little brother, the GS450h F-Sport!!!
See, there's a method to Lexus' madness
I'm betting the GS-F is hybrid.
Clue 1 : Toyota has proved that it can make performance hybrids to rival Audi during the 24 hour Le Mans endurance race. ( see : Toyota TS030 Hybrid )
Clue 2 : all the automotive scoops seem to suggest a 5L gasoline engine GS-F with engine hp just slightly more than the IS-F. That is seemingly a suicidal decision from a marketing perspective when the flagship performance car has the same hp as its little brother.An M5/RS6/E63 AMG does not have the same hp as an M3/RS4/C63 AMG.
Clue 3 : The US, the single biggest Lexus market in the world does not get the GS450h F-Sport even though the GS450h F-sport combines F-Sport handling with the instantaneous low-end torque of Lexus Hybrid Synergy drivetrain.
Clue 4 : Toyota/Lexus is betting its farm on Hybrid, essentially making Hybrid an inextricable part of Lexus DNA. It would look odd if its flagship GS isn't hybrid.
Explanation that ties everything together : Yes, the GS-F will have a NA V8 gasoline engine making about 400+ hp but what the scoops probably missed is that the engine is PART OF a hybrid drivetrain. A new performance oriented hybrid drivetrain that incorporates tech from the TS030 Hybrid. Total system hp and torque will probably easily exceed 500hp and make the Germans squeamish. All while escaping Gas Guzzler Tax.
Probably explains why US doesn't yet have GS450h F-Sport : it might steal the shock and awe of a GS-F unveiling in the US market when there's already a little brother essentially providing the same combo of F-Sport + hybrid ( albeit to a lesser degree) in a GS450h F-Sport.
I foresee the US getting the GS450h F-Sport at the same time as the GS-F, where the marketing slant will be : can't/won't afford the GS-F? Never mind, you can get its cheaper, more fuel economical little brother, the GS450h F-Sport!!!
See, there's a method to Lexus' madness
Hybrid sports cars are fine as long as they have the numbers.
04-01-13, 03:16 PM
#70
Lead Lap
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They played the "numbers game" with the ISF pretty well (416 HP to the M3's 416 HP or whatever it has). I don't see Lexus tarnishing the F line by failing to consider the fact that the GSF's competitors all have horsepower in the 550+ range.
04-01-13, 04:13 PM
#71
I bet it wont be hybrid but nice V8. To make some crazy numbers in hybrids you need to be plugin, you need super-capacitor, you need expensive materials to drop the weight down due to all those new components... and in the end, you get very very expensive car.
Instead, nice V8 with 460hp-560hp will do wonders, be relatively affordable and something people can appreciate. So unless someone develops new type of battery that can output 100hp from small pack, i dont see hybrid version coming soon. Right now battery output is limited to 50-60hp and thats simply not good enough to get over 300lbs weight gain.
04-01-13, 09:16 PM
#72
Lead Lap
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
can GS-F cost $845k like 918?
I bet it wont be hybrid but nice V8. To make some crazy numbers in hybrids you need to be plugin, you need super-capacitor, you need expensive materials to drop the weight down due to all those new components... and in the end, you get very very expensive car.
Instead, nice V8 with 460hp-560hp will do wonders, be relatively affordable and something people can appreciate. So unless someone develops new type of battery that can output 100hp from small pack, i dont see hybrid version coming soon. Right now battery output is limited to 50-60hp and thats simply not good enough to get over 300lbs weight gain.
I bet it wont be hybrid but nice V8. To make some crazy numbers in hybrids you need to be plugin, you need super-capacitor, you need expensive materials to drop the weight down due to all those new components... and in the end, you get very very expensive car.
Instead, nice V8 with 460hp-560hp will do wonders, be relatively affordable and something people can appreciate. So unless someone develops new type of battery that can output 100hp from small pack, i dont see hybrid version coming soon. Right now battery output is limited to 50-60hp and thats simply not good enough to get over 300lbs weight gain.
04-01-13, 10:14 PM
#74
Lead Lap
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 717
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And also didn't Toyota build some hybrid KERS system that pushed a collaboration car with Lotus to well over 500 or 600 HP?
What's this about Toyota batteries being limited to just 50 or 60 HP?
What's this about Toyota batteries being limited to just 50 or 60 HP?
04-02-13, 09:54 AM
#75
can GS-F cost $845k like 918?
I bet it wont be hybrid but nice V8. To make some crazy numbers in hybrids you need to be plugin, you need super-capacitor, you need expensive materials to drop the weight down due to all those new components... and in the end, you get very very expensive car.
Instead, nice V8 with 460hp-560hp will do wonders, be relatively affordable and something people can appreciate. So unless someone develops new type of battery that can output 100hp from small pack, i dont see hybrid version coming soon. Right now battery output is limited to 50-60hp and thats simply not good enough to get over 300lbs weight gain.
I bet it wont be hybrid but nice V8. To make some crazy numbers in hybrids you need to be plugin, you need super-capacitor, you need expensive materials to drop the weight down due to all those new components... and in the end, you get very very expensive car.
Instead, nice V8 with 460hp-560hp will do wonders, be relatively affordable and something people can appreciate. So unless someone develops new type of battery that can output 100hp from small pack, i dont see hybrid version coming soon. Right now battery output is limited to 50-60hp and thats simply not good enough to get over 300lbs weight gain.