ydooby

That's your way of thinking as an enthusiast of course.

Most general public simply can't care less about the "sport" part of the equation. All they want is a premium-badged midsized sedan that can comfortably fit a small family. In this regard the ES more than competes with the GS and is actually much better than the GS in the interior room available, and once the price tags are taken into consideration the GS stands little chance against the ES except for the relatively few that do care about vehicle dynamics and the more upscale interior appointments.

When they walk into a BMW dealership there's no choice for them but the 5-series. When they walk into a Lexus dealership they're presented with 2 options, and for most the choice is clearly the ES.

In a recent JDM sales thread it was revealed that the GS was actually the sales leader of the year of the Lexus brand in Japan, and it is obvious that it is the case only because the ES isn't offered there to compete with it.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

I understand but I may be wrong but I can see the two being cross shopped.Two completely different vehicles and a well worth it to me $10K+ difference.

ydooby

To you, sure. To most, they're simply both premium family sedans with the same badge and the premium of the GS is not worth the $10k difference especially when the ES offers much more room and therefore much higher wife-approval-factor. The sales figures of the two have proven the point for years.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Higher priced luxury sport sedans always have less sales than a cheaper entry level luxury sedan.
The wife thing is so true.
I had two ES350's and my wife would have liked me to get another to save $$$.

ydooby

Pricing is just one of the factors, but the main point is still that the ES competes directly with the GS for what most people are looking for in a premium family car, regardless of price.

Price-wise it competes more with the IS, which is also why the IS sales can never beat its peers either.

Lexus designed the ES to compete in both segments, the premium midsized sedan segment (size-wise) and the entry-level premium sedan segment (price-wise). That's just how it is.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

Well,like you said.
"That's your (my) way of thinking as an enthusiast"
If you're not somewhat of a car enthusiast,you wouldn't buy a GS.

ydooby

Yeah, we simply have to realize that we enthusiasts are really a minority of the population.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

I agree.

spwolf

yeah... but problem with your thinking is that GS would not sell significantly more and overall sales of Lexus would drop.

As to the Prius separated numbers, they have always been available, just in not that sheet... Actually, Prius is another good example of brand-not-diluting with more vehicles.

GS69

GS69

Japan Auto Makers Post Lower China Sales

Japanese auto makers posted falling sales in China in the 1st 2 months of the year, but the slowing pace of the decline suggests the impact of a territorial dispute between the t2 wo countries is leveling off.

Nissan Motor Co. 7201.TO +0.11% said Monday its China sales dropped 14% to 174,000 vehicles in the January-February period, while Honda Motor Co. 7267.TO +0.29% reported a 4% fall in China sales to 79,272 vehicles over the same period.

On Friday, Toyota Motor Corp., 7203.TO -0.11% Japan's largest car manufacturer by production, said sales of new passenger cars in China fell 13% in the 1st 2 months of this year to 108,800 units.

The sales declines are more moderate than those in earlier months, when a territorial dispute between China and Japan led to a consumer backlash in China against Japanese brands. Nissan posted a 24% decline in its China sales in December and a 30% fall in November. Toyota saw China sales fall 16% in December following a 22% drop in November and a 44% slide in October.

"Comparing this with the situation in November and December of 2012, we believe that we are steadily recovering," Nissan said in a statement.

The territorial spat involves a group of uninhabited islands in East China Sea. The Japanese government said in August it would purchase the disputed islands, prompting anti-Japanese protests across China and sharp declines in purchases of Japanese products ranging from cars to cameras. In one widely publicized case, a driver of a Japanese-brand car was assaulted by a mob.

Japanese companies have taken a series of measures in recent months to win back Chinese consumers. For example, Nissan launched a safety-assurance program in which any cost arising from damage or injury as a result of anti-Japan sentiment is paid for by Nissan's joint venture with Dongfeng Motor Group Co. 0489.HK -6.40%

While the sales slump appears to be moderating, analysts say Japanese auto makers need to continue working to bring back Chinese customers. "Such measures are not enough for Japanese car makers to restore their Chinese sales to the pre-dispute level," said Xu Min Feng, an analyst at Central China Securities. At the end of December, Japanese auto makers had a 16% market share, compared with 20% before the dispute, according to Chinese auto data.

"They need to launch more new models and ramp up efforts in advertisement," he said.

Analysts widely expect China to report a rise of 10% to 20% in auto sales for the January-February period. The semiofficial industry group China Association of Automobiles Manufacturers is due to release February sales data as early as this week.

Vehicle sales in China jumped 46% from a year earlier in January, the quickest pace in nearly 3 years, because of the distortion caused by the Lunar New Year holiday, which was in January 2012 but fell in February this year. The distortion helped Toyota, Nissan and Honda post China sales increases of 24%, 22% and 22%, respectively, in that month.

ydooby

The yearly changes and especially the monthly changes of the Camry, the Accord and the Altima are telling... that the new Accord is looking to be a home run. Toyota is wise to make emergent upgrades to the Camry. Don't think it will have been able to keep the crown for long if they didn't react quickly enough.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

accord not doing THAT great, it's at same sales level as fusion and even altima. camry's still 25% more sales, which is amazing to me. maybe in these uncertain times people just flock to safety.

RNM GS3

I agree with the above, thats why I started a thread calling for the ES to be killed off.

My prediction is if there was no ES, the GS would be selling 4,000 per month easy.

Also the new ES is hideous and cheap looking in person - the new Avalon looks much nicer inside/out. Killing the ES will continue to separate Lexus from the stigma that its just a souped up Camry.

I'm actually surprised how bad the GS is selling since I see them all over in NYC.
Maybe other parts of the country its not doing well.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

You want to kill off a car model that sells just under 5K units a month?
Toyota will never kill off the ES.The ES and RX are the top sellers.

The GS has less interior room and is $12K more than the ES and a different car.
The GS has to attract 5 Series and E Class buyers.That's the class it's in.The average person will like a roomy entry level luxury car like the ES and not spend another $12K..
The Camry stigma hasn't really hurt the ES as it has sold very well over the years.
The new ES now shares it's platform with the Avalon.