bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

dicer there have been no (ZERO) credible reports of 'unintended acceleration'. while there's a lot of code and processors in cars, they undergo extensive testing, plus they build on prior code which has also been tested. there's independent testing, and of course there's feedback from customers and dealers which is taken seriously by car makers (obviously). there's probably more safety tech and failsafes and fallback/redundancy in cars than in airplanes.

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

Not to mention that at the end of the day, the brakes will always overpower the gas even at WOT.

chikoo

BUT how does all that million lines of code prevent a mechanical shifter or a mechanical emergency brake to not operate??

BSOD can happen anytime, but that is why we have a physical power button to turn the computer off.

LeX2K

Unfortunately this is not always true. If the engine remains at WOT and the person pumps the pedal a few times then vacuum to the brake booster gets depleted and stopping power is reduced enough where the engine does overpower the brakes.

Sulu

Don't pump the brakes. Stomp on the brake pedal and keep your planted foot there. You would be surprised how strong even a little old lady can be when the adrenaline starts pumping. Stand on the brakes and it should overpower the WOT.

Few (if any) seemingly mechanical shifters (on automatic transmissions) are actually mechanical anymore; the gearshift stick translates mechanical position to an electrical signal. You want a mechanical shifter? Better shop for a good old 3-pedal manual stick.

That's right -- just turn off the ignition by turning the key or stabbing (and holding) that engine stop button.

LeX2K

Not everyone does this, they panic or whatever and pump the brakes. That's why a throttle override makes so much sense, protect people from their own incompetence. Either way I don't understand why in so many of these cases no one tries to put the car in neutral. Sure they say they tried and it didn't work but I don't find this credible.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

most people are just outright terrible drivers that have had zero emergency skills. I wonder how many people actually have the correct seating position so they can apply full braking power of their foot for a panic stop. There are several options at their disposal to mitigate and stop a situation like this and for the most part are not used at all.

dicer

All kinda funny responses since my post. None of you even watched the 60 minutes deal. IT SHOWED HOW THE CAR WAS CONTROLED BY SOMEONE ELSE.
And how the code was reprogrammed. In new cars after a certain year the "mechanical shifter" is no more mechanical than the accelerator pedal is, and if there is a mechanical link its only to the park pawl and that will not engage at speed. At speed the small surface area parking brakes become ineffective because of fade. And besides try to drive your car over 50 mph and yank the parking brake, I bet you spin out of control especially if you are entering a turn.

Again your all thinking of cars from the early 90's and lower years. It is the computer age in cars now.
Here are some good links for electronic parking brakes.
https://www.google.com/patents/US5370449
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parking_brake
scroll down to electric park brake.


http://www.audiworld.com/forums/q5-s...brake-2871442/
In this forum read the "electromechanical parking brake"
Oh and ABS is operated via a computer, everyone thinks runway is just a gas pedal sticking. Again watch 60 minutes show.


Here you go the only mechanical link in this manualish type transmission is to the parking pawl. The shift collars are all moved by way of shift solenoids. They mention a manual mode, but even then its done just like anyother modern automatic transmission, by electrical shift solenoids. And a computer is allowing the different modes.

Sulu

I am curious: will the brake override work even if you do not remain on the brake pedal for any great length of time, like if you are pumping the brakes?

But I am willing to bet that in a panic situation that more people will floor the brake pedal than pump it; pumping it requires too much thought.

Regarding putting the car into neutral (on traditional automatic transmissions)... I am wondering if drivers these days (especially if they did not receive formal driver's education training) would know that "N" is neutral and that it removes the mechanical link between engine and driven wheels?

Could this be one reason why car makers are making it more difficult to shove the transmission into neutral?

First, Ford made you depress the button on the gearshift lever to move from D to N, instead of merely pushing from D to N.

Then we have the hockey puck on Jaguars and new Chryslers. It is less intuitive (requires more thought in a panic situation) to turn the puck than to tap the lever.

Then we have the push-button gear selector on new Lincolns, and new Hondas. Again, it requires more thought to find and push the correct "N" button than tap a lever. And in typical Honda fashion, is it as simple as pushing the "N" button on the gear selector (other buttons on Honda's selector are not simple push buttons).

Nothing is as simple as a gear stick (since you can do it by feel), whether it is the traditional straight pattern, the current Toyota zig-zag pattern, or the smaller sticks that the Prius and new BMWs have.

LeX2K

The brake over ride will work, as soon as the ECU sees a signal from the brake switch it prevents the engine from producing full power. As for people not knowing what the N does, well they should not be behind the wheel if they don't know the most basic info.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

actually i did. apology accepted.

that 'demonstration' with leslie stahl was a lame piece of security theater. first, she has about as much technical know how as my dead grandmother.
second, we have no way of knowing how the car was modified, and even if not modified, what the 'hacker' knew about the car that he might not typically know about a real 'target' (like vin, firmware and hardware revisions, etc.).

seemed to me the darpa guy was a good show man, justifying his huge budget. if his stuff is real, why would he need to get on 60 minutes? in fact, why get on 60 minutes in any case and tell the world, unless you're bluffing?

mmarshall

The reasoning behind the dash push-button shifts is not necessarily to make the shifts more difficult but to free up the space that traditional shift levers take up. In a side-impact crash, impact of an front-seat occupant with the shift lever right next to them also poses an injury risk that you won't have with buttons.

And, of course, the idea of buttons is nothing new. Back in the 1960s, I learned to drive on a Plymouth with push-buttons. Most American-designed Chrysler products had them from the late 1950s until 1966, when traditional levers replaced them. And the ill-fated Ford Edsel used them, in the steering wheel hub, during its first year. Not all the Chrysler or Edsel push-button transmissions had a PARK function, but those that did used a slide-lever that worked up or down and engaged park.



Partially agree. The fore/aft levers are nice, but the zig-zags, IMO, s**k.

dicer

And the mention of no credible reports on the acceleration deal?
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota...ry?id=22972214
Hiway patrol man and family in a lexus. Out of all people other than a professional race driver he would not panic and would first do what EVERYONE says to do in that sort of situation.

What is interesting about this, long before all that acceleration stuff was in the news, my little car I installed a cruise control in would constantly have the accelerator stick. No big deal, and before that in my younger days had another old junker that had a accelerator spring that would pop off and go wide open throttle a quick toe under the gas pedal fixed the problem. So I really don't buy the floor mat answer to the problem.

Has the problem ever happened to a mechanic or old timer?

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

^ It was shown that this particular incident was due to improperly installed floor mats (one on top of another) that slipped and got jammed under the accelerator.

The only person that "proved" that unintended acceleration could've been a computer issue was a guy that hacked the heck out of a Camry to override all of the safety mechanisms

spwolf

car was modified by splicing wires of course... there is no way to hack a car without modifiying it physically first... it is far easier to just cut their brake line :-)