German cars among worst for engine failures
#16
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Seems like an excuse : we should give the German engines a free pass just because they are more complicated?
We should be applauding the most elegant and reliable solution rather than a needlessly complicated but unreliable solution to balancing performance versus fuel economy needs.
Complication in and of itself is not the desired endpoint. If a simple engine design gets the job done with less maintenance issues, that motor IS the superior motor .
We should be applauding the most elegant and reliable solution rather than a needlessly complicated but unreliable solution to balancing performance versus fuel economy needs.
Complication in and of itself is not the desired endpoint. If a simple engine design gets the job done with less maintenance issues, that motor IS the superior motor .
If that's your stance then I'm sure you're a huge fan of GM's pushrod-OHV V8 and no longer manufactured V6 engines, as those all fit the bill nicely. You don't need tons of cams or 8000rpm rev ceilings or tons of variable technologies or turbochargers. Just a nice simple BIG engine that can make all the power it needs without all of that, is extremely cheap and simple to manufacture in comparison to many other engines, and is still remarkably efficient.
#17
Did I give them a free pass?
If that's your stance then I'm sure you're a huge fan of GM's pushrod-OHV V8 and no longer manufactured V6 engines, as those all fit the bill nicely. You don't need tons of cams or 8000rpm rev ceilings or tons of variable technologies or turbochargers. Just a nice simple BIG engine that can make all the power it needs without all of that, is extremely cheap and simple to manufacture in comparison to many other engines, and is still remarkably efficient.
If that's your stance then I'm sure you're a huge fan of GM's pushrod-OHV V8 and no longer manufactured V6 engines, as those all fit the bill nicely. You don't need tons of cams or 8000rpm rev ceilings or tons of variable technologies or turbochargers. Just a nice simple BIG engine that can make all the power it needs without all of that, is extremely cheap and simple to manufacture in comparison to many other engines, and is still remarkably efficient.
#18
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the rich will buy and drive for the first couple or few years, then the next buyer will have the problems. I believe this is the reason why they will continue to sell units. makes enough sense. auto companies make their money off the first owners. why would these buyers continue buying ? because they never really had it long enough to have problems and even if they did, they have a full warranty. living in luxury and having little gadgets will never go out of style ,.
#19
As for the article, it shouldn't really be a surprise to anybody that more complicated engines and cars are going to be less reliable. That's always been the case. I kinda chuckled at the first sentence - yeah who thought German cars were super reliable to begin with? UK based publication though so yeah...
Another thing to point, for instance Toyota sells a lot of hybrids and turbo diesels in Europe, and yet they end up being #2. Mercedes has a lot of turbo's, and they are #3.
So clearly, it simply comes down to some manufacturers being more reliable than others.
#20
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Chevy Camaro 6.2L V8 6MT: 16 city, 24 highway, 19 combined
BMW M3 (E92) 4.0L V8 6MT: 14 city, 20 highway, 16 combined
Lexus IS-F 5.0L V8 8AT: 16 city, 23 highway, 18 combined
And back in the day when the GM 3800 Series II/III engines competed with the Japanese 3.0L V6's, that 3800 still managed the best mileage in its class thanks to tons of torque and being able to pull super tall gears without a problem, and that same prodigious torque also gave them great drivability.
What's "imbalanced"?
#21
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#22
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For some cars in this list (especially #1 and #2, could part of the reason be that the owners are driving them way too hard?)
And hang on, why is Porsche even there? AFAIK, out of all the German auto brands, Porsche should be the most reliable.
I can understand a VW being on that list...........but not a Porsche.
And hang on, why is Porsche even there? AFAIK, out of all the German auto brands, Porsche should be the most reliable.
I can understand a VW being on that list...........but not a Porsche.
#23
Lots of cheaper/simpler brands than Honda, Toyota, Mercedes...
And its not just engines either... similar things show in all various reports. For instance TUV does technical inspections and most germans (expect Porsche) do really not good where expensive cars should do good. Yet Honda and Toyota still up the top.
I think it is more of culture of the company thing than anything else.
But yeah, if we put it in that contest, within same company, simpler should be better, unless it is cheaper car. For instance, in Yaris you might have less enduring suspension and interior, but also less problems with engines.
I guess when we think about it, simple calls are not easy to make here :-).
#24
Lexus Fanatic
The reason for engine failures is simple, people buy German luxury cars cause they think they are better, they drive them like they stole them and so that adds to the premature wear.
Engines across the board are high performance and delicate, let it warm up before you drop the pedal, no longer do we have the heavy duty engines that you can go WOT, on a cold winter morning.
Engines across the board are high performance and delicate, let it warm up before you drop the pedal, no longer do we have the heavy duty engines that you can go WOT, on a cold winter morning.
Plus you have absolutely no data to back up your theory, I know people with high end German cars that drive them like an old Granny on their way to church.
#25
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I find this ridiculous. Take your average Toyota Corolla and drive it like you stole it, and the engine is still not going to fail. Sure it will probably wear out faster, but by then the car will likely have 200k+ miles anyway. If you pay top dollar for a premium performance car, the engine should most certainly not be delicate!
Plus you have absolutely no data to back up your theory, I know people with high end German cars that drive them like an old Granny on their way to church.
Plus you have absolutely no data to back up your theory, I know people with high end German cars that drive them like an old Granny on their way to church.
Don't believe what you read on the internet
#26
Lexus Fanatic
My take on this issue :
the Top 2 most reliable engines came from Honda and Toyota, probably due partly to them not turbocharging/supercharging their engines.
Besides the reliability aspect, force induction tends to give artificial non-progressive throttle response at best and significant turbo-lag at worst (when compared to a well implemented normal aspirated power/drive-train).
So to those who champion force-induction as the next automotive 2nd coming, realise that there's always a price to pay for that low-down torque and nice EPA fuel consumption figures.
#27
I don't necessarily agree that it is a forced-induction issue, although it is true (somewhat less-so now than in the past) that turbos often did not last the life of the engine itself, often due to the use of inadquate oil or not following the proper start-up/shut-down procedures (i.e. longer idling). Many of the cases of engine fires in German-designed vehicles, though, were (and are) due to electronic defects, such as wiring harneses, failing cooling-fans/switches, engine-control computers, etc....
#28
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Still doesn't disprove the fact that German engines are the most unreliable. If not turbos, what is failing then?
Aren't turbos the least durable part of an engine?
Aren't turbos the least durable part of an engine?
#29
Lexus Fanatic
Some of the biggest failures and issues with German engines now are the Direct Injection systems/HPFP. Audi, VW, Mercedes(have not read as many issues), BMW, Porsche, have a lot of problems with them and they cost tons of money to fix/replace/clean. Some companies are offering extended warranties but I have read Audi is denying claims in many cases leaving owners with huge bills. Cooling systems has also been a big problem with many German engines especially in the past.
#30
Lexus Fanatic
They do still build them, and they ARE efficient.
Chevy Camaro 6.2L V8 6MT: 16 city, 24 highway, 19 combined
BMW M3 (E92) 4.0L V8 6MT: 14 city, 20 highway, 16 combined
Lexus IS-F 5.0L V8 8AT: 16 city, 23 highway, 18 combined
And back in the day when the GM 3800 Series II/III engines competed with the Japanese 3.0L V6's, that 3800 still managed the best mileage in its class thanks to tons of torque and being able to pull super tall gears without a problem, and that same prodigious torque also gave them great drivability.
What's "imbalanced"?
Chevy Camaro 6.2L V8 6MT: 16 city, 24 highway, 19 combined
BMW M3 (E92) 4.0L V8 6MT: 14 city, 20 highway, 16 combined
Lexus IS-F 5.0L V8 8AT: 16 city, 23 highway, 18 combined
And back in the day when the GM 3800 Series II/III engines competed with the Japanese 3.0L V6's, that 3800 still managed the best mileage in its class thanks to tons of torque and being able to pull super tall gears without a problem, and that same prodigious torque also gave them great drivability.
What's "imbalanced"?