Originally Posted by Blueprint

This needs to be reposted 10 million times all over the internet.

Originally Posted by rominl

more specifically, they know there is a problem with their direction. they know they have to get younger, and make the cars more exciting and fun to drive. i guess you can say they are not trying to become mb or bmw, but the direction they heading is somewhat where those companies are (or was?)

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

thanks...



appealing to the younger demographic is an interesting point, because it also has risk. lexus is trying to appeal to the younger demographic lately by appealing with actual performance, whereas bmw, mercedes and audi these days are mostly about branding/image than actual performance, except for their high end stuff. the reality is most upwardly mobile young people work in cities with horrible traffic, and so buying 1.0g handling or 0-60 in 4 seconds is a lot less important than the badge, the audio system, the cell phone integration, comfort, etc.

audi's an interesting case because they might be the only brand with 3 levels for each vehicle... normal, s, and rs (hard core). the s cars it seems are more about great looks and image than all out performance. hard to find anyone who doesn't think an s5 looks incredible. who cares how it 'goes'.

it's amazing how lexus has stepped up with the handling and f-sport, but the looks are more polarizing, especially on the is and gs. while the new f-sport front is 'in your face', the sides and rear don't (to me) either don't say much, or don't scream luxury.

having said that i saw a brand dark red new ls460 the other day (might have been f-sport, but went by so quick i didn't catch the fgont) and it looked spectacular. i also think this gen es (exterior design) was truly inspired, and no wonder it sells so well, despite us all knowing about certainly shortcuts that were taken.

Originally Posted by Hoovey2411

Clearly Acura and Infiniti want to be successful and to me it doesn't seem fair that Lexus should have to hold the banner against BMW, MBZ, Audi, Jag, and Porsche. Other than Lexus's beginnings which their trying to shed (albeit at a slower rate than the Euros), Acura and Infiniti give Japanese luxury a bad rep.

Originally Posted by Hoovey2411

I understand completely and agree with that. However for the sake of conversation and to play devils advocate, simply; why not? Why does it have to be this way? Clearly Acura and Infiniti want to be successful and to me it doesn't seem fair that Lexus should have to hold the banner against BMW, MBZ, Audi, Jag, and Porsche. Other than Lexus's beginnings which their trying to shed (albeit at a slower rate than the Euros), Acura and Infiniti give Japanese luxury a bad rep. Sure they're competent cars, but that is not what sells in this field. If run right, Acura and Infiniti have potential especially when you see their concepts. Unfortunately neither have any product or very little of it that could even be mentioned in the same breath as the rest. It's like are they really content with mediocrity?! The same can be said of Lincoln, which they and Acura and Infiniti would learn very much from Cadillac who took a simple formula and made it work. A year from now numbers will speak for themselves, but Cadillac actually had product or is going too, that matches that of the Euros. A coupe and flagship are on the way, with the small ATS, the CTS is now squarely positioned against the 5, E, GS, A6, XF, and V and V-Sport are going to rival M, S/RS, AMG, R, F. Helll even while the Lexus GS soldiers on with one power train regardless of trim, a standard V6 and Spercharged V8 for the CTS will soon be joined by the VSport 3.6L V6 TT 420hp. Cadillac has come to play. Back to Acura and Infiniti, things need to be taken more seriously. Build the NSX and Essence. Make them the halo of your brand as the LFA did for Lexus. Make it a catalyst toward propelling them towards the front lines where Lexus, Cadillac, and the aforementioned Euros do battle. The lack of effort, lack of product (toe to toe - like them bringing a knife to a gun fight), and the abysmal marketing are not only hurting them, but Lexus and the Japanese auto industry. Rumor had it the Infiniti dealer at my automall will be gone by years end.. At some point you gotta wake up and say what are we doing? Clearly it's all dreams and 's over there, because no one takes them seriously. And to be fair how coud they? They do nothing to support Lexus in this industry and rather drag down the image of Japanese luxury. If you want to match toe toe toe with the best, we'll then you have dig deep and produce a result that either matches or exceeds the Euros. You can't rest on laurels of competency, not in this day and age. To sum up, as long as the Euros continue to offer a product onslaught of high class, modern and advanced vehicles, there is nothing even Lexus and its LFA and award/comparison winning IS and GS duo can do by themselves to change the Image that society views or rather compares them to when the Euros set a standard as a whole. Until Acura and Infiniti and Lincoln for the Americans can offer what High end Euros do, the status quo will remain the same. This ties in nicely with my thread and the topic of Unequal Automakers.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...utomakers.html

To the Euros and their offerings I say thank you, to Lexus and Cadillac bravo for taking charge and battling back, and to Acura, Infiniti and Lincoln I say do it right or not at all. Strive to move chains and make big moves..

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

audi's an interesting case because they might be the only brand with 3 levels for each vehicle... normal, s, and rs (hard core). the s cars it seems are more about great looks and image than all out performance. hard to find anyone who doesn't think an s5 looks incredible. who cares how it 'goes'.

Originally Posted by Blueprint

FYI Hyundai dropped the 4.6. Pretty sure on that.

Originally Posted by Blueprint

FYI Hyundai dropped the 4.6. Pretty sure on that.

Originally Posted by BNR34

You are right! Make sense as the 5.0R was pretty much identical to the 4.6 other then the engine and tranny.

Originally Posted by TF109B

TMG is looking to have Toyota use them to make unique vehicles like this. If they do so, TMG can start to make more money if the vehicles are well received and Toyota sees a case for it. If that happens, then we can get more special cars and projects from TMG, like the LeMans program or these TMG super Toyota/Lexus cars. All this Infinity Acura Lexus vs. europe is trivial. Toyota do what they do and the other companies do what they do in terms of business. Don't see what that has to do with this TMG LS.

Originally Posted by natnut

If I may permitted to dream :

mainstream Lexus performance similar to M-Sport, S-line: F-Sport

hardcore performance line similar to AMG/M/RS : full fledged F ie RC-F, GS-F

"black line" similar to AMG Black : RC-F TMG edition, GS-F TMG edition -- may not be the actual nomenclature

So the TMG modifications will an ADDITIONAL modification to a full-fledged F line car