bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

did some more checking:

fleetwood:
Wheelbase 121.5 in
Length 225.0 in
Width 78.0 in
Height 57.1 in
Curb weight 4,600–4,700 lb
Horsepower 260
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Fleetwood

xts:
Wheelbase: 111.7 inches
Length: 202 inches
Width: 72.9 inches
Height: 59.1 inches
Curb weight: 3,995 lbs
Horsepower: 300
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffwor...illac-xts3.htm

Note that the fleetwood is longer and wider, but the xts is 2" taller, and of course, 600-700lbs lighter and more powerful with tons more standard equipment!

i doubt the fleetwood's interior space was much better (except width), because so much of its length was taken up by gigantic hood and trunk lengths.

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

This basically is a modern Fleetwood. Soft riding, cushy inside and out, huge proportions, not really made for performance. I agree though, on AWD. Their flagship model (hopefully to come) will be more in the CTS vein with emphasis on power, handling, and the 'Ring.

03 ES

Its like the DTS.....it'll probably have the craptastic NORTHSTAR FWD V8 like its failicious predecessor. God the deville/DTS was horrible. Why anyone would want FWD and a V8 is beyond me. Hell a Camry torque steers with a 268hp 3.5L V6.
I would so much rather the new ES and save myself a few bills in the process. If i wanted a Cadillac i'd get a real RWD CTS.

LexPaul

This is a really good looking sharp car, and I even considered looking at buying one, then the new ES came out and all bets were off, moreover, I still believe firmly that Lexus makes a much more 'quality' car. If I'm going to spend 50K, then I'll look at Lexus first, for sure.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

just curious, did you ever drive one? like your ES, it's no track star, but perfectly composed as a big comfy car.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

XTS won't have that "craptastic NORTHSTAR V8" lol its a V6 now

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

That Northstar V8 was actually a pretty great engine from an engineering point of view. The power derived from the powerplant was class leading. Now we all know the propensity for it to drink motor oil and poor reliability as it got older really dampened its reputation. LOL.

Northstar has been phased out. This will get a DI V6.

03 ES

My stepfather has a 2002 Deville DTS and I've driven it quite a few times and it just didn't do it for me....Plus i just hate the NORTHSTAR....burns oil like crazy, unreliable, and unpleasently noisy even though he has maintained it only at Cadillac since new...it has less miles than my 2003 ES and my ES blows it out of the water.
I hope this new sedan is better for them, but I still do not see the need for this car. If i wanted a large FWD sedan I'd just buy an ES like i already did.

mmarshall

Most of the people driving the DTS are either aged or, for the few younger persons with them, simply don't care about drag-strip performance or high-G cornering. They are sedate drivers, and rarely accelerate hard enough for noticeable torque-steer to kick in.

mmarshall

Gotta respectfully disagree, Paul. It's true that Obama and his cronies are trying to force us all into super-high-MPG cars in the next few years. But the government actions are clearly going against a good portion of the public's desires. A significant number of older folks, police, taxi drivers, and driver-school instructors still mourn the passing of GM's full-size RWD V8 full-frame cars....and are also mourning the more recent passing of Ford's big V8 full-frame cars as well. I myself have talked to many people who are dissatisfied even with today's DeVille/DTS....to them, real Cadillacs were Fleetwoods, and real Buicks Roadmasters. Cops and taxi drivers of course, flocked to the Crown Vic when the Caprice was dropped.....and few, if any, of the more modern smaller unibody police cars really please them.

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

Well, figuring the Town car, the last vestige of the body-on-frame RWD vehicles you speak of was discontinued due to slow sales, I have to agree that the the Fleetwood type vehicle is obsolete. Of course they are cheaper to fix and extremely durable and the fleet industry such as police, limos, and taxis will surely miss them. However, I see nothing wrong with moving on to more modern and advanced vehicles. Put some 17" rims on this new XTS and I'm sure the ride will be extremely supple (as those in the picture look like 20"s at least). Those cars were too heavy, too slow, too old tech, not safe, and definitely not efficient for its size. There are many cars that can do what the old Fleetwood did (which was not much) much better and more efficiently now. There was a time and place for the Fleetwood.

I see nothing wrong with companies being pushed to produce more fuel efficient cars. Gas prices are only going up. If anyone thinks release of US reserves and shale is going to result in lower prices... LOL, I've got news for you. I for one, would rather have a car that gets better MPG. Also, what is it about the older cars that people miss? I'm sure this new XTS will out perform and out comfort the old Fleetwood by miles. Is it just nostalgia? If so then that will pass.

mmarshall

The Town Car was discontinued because the powers-that-be at Ford and Lincoln decided that they wanted to go for a younger average-buyer audience, while ignoring the limo-market, senior-citizen, car-rental, funeral, and other organizations that bought and loved it.


It might be obsolete in that old 1995 form, but newer versons, with updated equipment like ABS, VSC, direct-injection, multiple-air-bags, etc...can be produced. There is nothing that dictated that the full-size, full-frame RWD car had to go away.....GM simply decided to sacrifice them, at the Arlington, TX plant, to convert the plant to the (then) exploding truck/SUV market.


I would maybe have bought one myself if GM had gotten the quality down right on it. But, plush as it was, and smooth/quiet as it was, the interior and body-hardware were cheaply-done, with poor-quality materials and loose-construction that lasted a couple of years and then often fell apart. The frame was durable, yes, but much of the rest of the car, like most GM products of the time, was sloppily-built. But those are problems that could have been resolved without dumping the car.

mmarshall

I looked at an XTS at the D.C. auto show last January, although I didn't get to see the interior, as the only one there was on a platform and locked-up. It didn't look big to me....certainly no larger than its Lincoln MKS competitor, and, like the MKS, carried much lower-profile tires than the Town Car/DeVille it replaces. I'll reserve total judgement on the XTS's ride until I get to sample one, but found the MKS's ride to be much firmer than the Town Car's (exactly as I had predicted, despite the Lincoln reps, at the time, trying to downplay it). It is interesting to note that the top customer-complaint on the MKS, (now with the Lincoln people themselves admitting it) is a firm, uncomfortable ride compared to the Town Car.

We'll see what happens with the XTS. I'd bet the rent-money, though, that it will be noticeably firmer than the DTS. (But I'm an honest enough person to admit if and when I'm wrong...I've done it before)


Who buys a Caddy flagship, though, to go spurting around the 'Ring? That, obviously, is what the CTS-V is for. AWD, though, is indeed a welcome addition.

Fizzboy7

Based on styling alone, this new XTS is just a new twist on a long line of poor selling full-sized Cadillacs and Lincolns. Not enough is changed here. It still has stodgy and retro styling- none of which leads to longterm sales or capturing the aging baby boomers. The game changed back in the 90's when Lexus introduced cars like the ES and LS. Suddenly the executive or retiree could have a modern piece of technology that still rode smoothly and had good storage space. That was the beginning of the end for the big American iron.
I wish Caddy luck, it's going to need it.

mmarshall

Can't speak for everywhere, but in this D.C. area, both the Town Car and DeVille/DTS sold very well. Of course, a lot of people in this area have money, and can afford cars like that. I suspect, though don't have the hard numbers to prove it, that they also sold very well in Florida.


Are you saying that the ES and LS had bigger trunks than the big full-size American-badged cars of the period? I don't think so.