Lexus Says "No" To Entry Level Cars
02-26-12, 06:51 PM
#16
Dysfunctional Veteran
Lets face it folks, where is the Prestiege in the brand, if any kid out of high school can afford one? Lexus is about prestige, it always has been. Subtle, understated, classic luxury. People who dont want to be flashy about their money, get an LS, people who have money and want to go fast with some luxury, get an IS-F, there is literally something for everyone already, so why drop the money on R&D for making a 20k car, that might actually KILL the brand's reputation?
02-26-12, 09:21 PM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
I agree with most here. A car slotting below the CT would upset everything Lexus has established as a brand. True luxury will always cost extra pennies.
Or you could look at it this way... Mercedes and BMW don't really have a strong step child to use to peddle cars. Lexus has Toyota to use. So having the 1 series and B class makes sense.
Or you could look at it this way... Mercedes and BMW don't really have a strong step child to use to peddle cars. Lexus has Toyota to use. So having the 1 series and B class makes sense.
02-27-12, 08:42 PM
#18
Guest
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And another thing the CT has many features standard and optional very befitting of a luxury car and even has features/options many luxury cars/brands don't even have. So its really appropriate. Its not like its just a hatchback with leather, 8 speaker stereo and NAV. There are good ways to go downmarket and bad ones.
It does seem the new A/B class, A1, etc are well done even though they might fight Toyotas.
It does seem the new A/B class, A1, etc are well done even though they might fight Toyotas.
02-27-12, 09:47 PM
#19
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
It is obvious that the Germans will do whatever it takes to meet Euro standards so cheapening their brands should not be surprising. Personally, I find those changes much less significant than other emissions/mpg-related changes, such as BMW recently moving away from naturally-aspirated engines or Porsche using electronic steering in the new 911 - I consider these to be nothing more than the current leadership spitting on the history of their own companies, if not outright sacrilege.
If these ridiculous government-legislated restrictions are a factor in why Lexus is reluctant to focus on the European market, then good. Lexus is better off without that influence.
Last edited by gengar; 02-29-12 at 08:23 AM.
02-27-12, 10:06 PM
#20
Lexus Connoisseur
This is fine and all, but I can't help but feel like this means they're simply not going to make small cars. I can understand keeping the prices up, but why not a have a luxurious small car? Hell, stretch the FR-S platform and call it the SC 200. That would at least round out their bottom rung without pandering to the slovenly masses who can't afford an IS.
02-27-12, 10:31 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
I am happy with their decision. In fact I think cars like the HS and the CT need to be cut ASAP. Luxury car manufacturers should make luxury cars
02-27-12, 10:37 PM
#23
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This is fine and all, but I can't help but feel like this means they're simply not going to make small cars. I can understand keeping the prices up, but why not a have a luxurious small car? Hell, stretch the FR-S platform and call it the SC 200. That would at least round out their bottom rung without pandering to the slovenly masses who can't afford an IS.
Last edited by raptor22; 02-27-12 at 10:41 PM.
02-28-12, 01:36 AM
#24
The other reason the Germans are going cheap and downmarket is so that they can game the Euro mpg and emissions regulations. They're able to game the system because the regulations are based on weighted fleet-wide averages. Cheapening their brand by introducing inexpensive sub-luxury models is the easiest (and most meaningless) way to achieve lower averages, as they can effectively lower their average emissions/mpg without making any substantive changes to their rest of the fleet.
It is obvious that the Germans will do whatever it takes to meet Euro standards so cheapening their brands should not be surprising. Personally, I find those changes much less significant than other emissions/mpg-related changes, such as BMW recently moving away from naturally-aspirated engines or Porsche using electronic steering in the new 911 - I consider these to be nothing more than the current leadership spitting on the history of their own companies, if not outright sacrilege.
If these ridiculous government-legislated restrictions are a factor in why Lexus is reluctant to focus on the European market, then good. Lexus is better off without that influence.
It is obvious that the Germans will do whatever it takes to meet Euro standards so cheapening their brands should not be surprising. Personally, I find those changes much less significant than other emissions/mpg-related changes, such as BMW recently moving away from naturally-aspirated engines or Porsche using electronic steering in the new 911 - I consider these to be nothing more than the current leadership spitting on the history of their own companies, if not outright sacrilege.
If these ridiculous government-legislated restrictions are a factor in why Lexus is reluctant to focus on the European market, then good. Lexus is better off without that influence.
VW/Audi is just trying to make more money :-)
02-28-12, 07:27 AM
#27
Out of Warranty
Lexus already has an "entry level" car, it's called a Toyota. While several Toyota lines can be optioned up to near-Lexus content (and price), building a Lexus "down" to the Toyota market would only confuse the marketing of the brand. Physical size has nothing to do with luxury. The IS is a small car, at least for me, as it is actually smaller inside than a Civic - but it is a legitimate luxury car. If I were able to perform the human origami required to get my 6'4"/320 lbs into it, I'd be first in line for one.
02-28-12, 05:37 PM
#29
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We shall see how Buick does, given that they have smaller, cheap offerings. While I, probably a lot members here, would never buy a $22k Buick based off of a Cruze, a $25k Lexus offering would surely grab a few.
The other reality is that Americans are looking for smaller cars, like in Europe. Not in huge numbers, but look where gas is headed. So Fiat, and Mini/BMW, and MB/Smart can benefit, having smaller cars to offer. Lexus? Well, you're kidding yourself if you think that anyone is cross shopping a Scion and a Lexus.
The other reality is that Americans are looking for smaller cars, like in Europe. Not in huge numbers, but look where gas is headed. So Fiat, and Mini/BMW, and MB/Smart can benefit, having smaller cars to offer. Lexus? Well, you're kidding yourself if you think that anyone is cross shopping a Scion and a Lexus.
Last edited by SLegacy99; 02-28-12 at 05:40 PM.
02-28-12, 06:23 PM
#30
Out of Warranty
When America first started building "economy" cars to compete with Volkswagen, Renault and the Volvo of the 1960's they came hard upon the first reality of building smaller cars: just building them smaller doesn't in itself make them cheaper. They aren't that much cheaper to build than a "full size" car. Maybe they require a smaller amount of raw materials, but the engineering and manufacturing process is the same, whatever the size of the car you are building. From an automaker's standpoint, there isn't as much difference as you'd think between a Civic and a Cadillac - other than a several hundred pounds of steel. That's the cheap part. It's what you do with that material that makes the difference. It has to be bent, punched, formed, welded, assembled and finished in exactly the same way. At the same time, there is no real benefit in a "handmade" car other than the cachet. Industrial robots are capable of holding finer tolerances than human hands anyway. The difference is in inspection and QC.
Obviously, everyone wants to build a quality car that's reliable (to minimize costly warranty work) and is appropriately featured and priced to a mass market. No one benefits in the long run from a poorly designed or a shoddily-built car, you have a reputation at stake that will have a direct impact on sales. (Witness Yugo) With all of the federal standards cars must meet today, there is little opportunity to manufacture something that is truly dangerous on the American road. Where do you think all of the Renault 2CV's and Fiat 500's went? Even the original VW Beetle, as good as it was, was legislated out of existence because it could never meet increasingly stringent crash standards.
Why then does a Scion sell for that much less than a Lexus IS? Certainly there are some differences in materials cost, and with a longer manufacturing cycle, the Lexus is more labor-intensive, but does it actually double the cost of the product? Well, not until you add marketing and sales costs. I don't know about your market area, but my Kia shop's waiting room doesn't offer lattes and biscotti.
Obviously, everyone wants to build a quality car that's reliable (to minimize costly warranty work) and is appropriately featured and priced to a mass market. No one benefits in the long run from a poorly designed or a shoddily-built car, you have a reputation at stake that will have a direct impact on sales. (Witness Yugo) With all of the federal standards cars must meet today, there is little opportunity to manufacture something that is truly dangerous on the American road. Where do you think all of the Renault 2CV's and Fiat 500's went? Even the original VW Beetle, as good as it was, was legislated out of existence because it could never meet increasingly stringent crash standards.
Why then does a Scion sell for that much less than a Lexus IS? Certainly there are some differences in materials cost, and with a longer manufacturing cycle, the Lexus is more labor-intensive, but does it actually double the cost of the product? Well, not until you add marketing and sales costs. I don't know about your market area, but my Kia shop's waiting room doesn't offer lattes and biscotti.