Obama Admin. proposes upping tax credit to $10,000 to prop up failing Volt
02-21-12, 10:50 AM
#46
Lead Lap
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 535
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some of the outraged conservatives please comment on this regarding farm subsidies.
"Direct payment subsidies are provided without regard to the economic need of the recipients or the financial condition of the farm economy. Established in 1996, direct payments were originally meant to wean farmers off traditional subsidies that are triggered during periods of low prices for corn, wheat, soybeans, cotton, rice, and other crops."[14]
Top states for direct payments were Iowa ($501 million), Illinois ($454 million), and Texas ($397 million). Direct payments of subsidies are limited to $40,000 per person or $80,000 per couple.[14]
Top states for direct payments were Iowa ($501 million), Illinois ($454 million), and Texas ($397 million). Direct payments of subsidies are limited to $40,000 per person or $80,000 per couple.[14]
02-21-12, 12:02 PM
#47
Lexus Fanatic
Well, it's no secret that we're using a fair amount of corn to make ethanol, which, in many states, is used in the 10-15% ratio (EPA-mandated) of typical pump-gas (California and a few Northeastern states may be slightly different, as some of their gas is CARB-regulated). E85 (85% Ethanol-gas) is also available in some places, most in the Midwest....and, of course, requires engines/fuel-systems designed for it. Farmers, today, simply have to grow more corn to meet that (and future) ethanol-demands....though the low-grade corn actually used in ethanol-plants is not something you would want to put on your dinner-table, or, in some cases, even feed to farm-animals. To grow more corn, of course, farmers have more expenses (seeds, plowing, planting, reaping, watering, storage, etc...)....which the government is obviously trying to address with subsidies. Unfortunately, it is not realistic to have dozens of different laws or subsidy-rates for a bunch of different farmers/growers nationwide with different-incomes...the reimbursement-process has to be kept as simple as possible....otherwise, it would look like Webster's Dictionary.
I myself have mixed-feelings, BTW, about ethanol. It's clean-burning, very high-octane to prevent pinging/knocking, doesn't (IMO) stink as bad as gasoline, has a lower flash-point than gasoline for fire-safety, and, of course, delps reduce dependency on foreign-oil. But it is not energy-efficient (it gets only a little more than half the mileage of gasoline), it is not particularly energy-efficient to produce, and, when it DOES catch fire, burns with an almost invisible light-blue flame and no smoke....not with the highly-visible orange-flame and black-smoke of gasoline.
I myself have mixed-feelings, BTW, about ethanol. It's clean-burning, very high-octane to prevent pinging/knocking, doesn't (IMO) stink as bad as gasoline, has a lower flash-point than gasoline for fire-safety, and, of course, delps reduce dependency on foreign-oil. But it is not energy-efficient (it gets only a little more than half the mileage of gasoline), it is not particularly energy-efficient to produce, and, when it DOES catch fire, burns with an almost invisible light-blue flame and no smoke....not with the highly-visible orange-flame and black-smoke of gasoline.
02-21-12, 12:23 PM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
02-22-12, 09:19 AM
#50
Lexus Champion
#math-and-history-fail
about reagan - ending the cold war after the disastrous carter presidency was worth it for one thing. also, as a percentage of GDP, reagan's debts were FAR lower than today.
about obama - he, like reagan, inherited a horrible economy. difference is, reagan cut taxes and inspired confidence and believed a rising tide lifts all boats (and it did). obama has ranted endlessly about making anyone making decent money (not even rich) pay "their fair share" (more) while offering more and more 'credits' and breaks and welfare for those who pay NO taxes, and endlessly ranting about unfairness, etc. and also massively increasing regulation on business, he killed most energy exploration, killed the pipeline, passed or pushed insanely bureaucratic and expensive programs and the national debt now exceeds 100% of GDP, a national disgrace.
i am HOPING gas prices skyrocket this summer, to show once and for all, what a terrible, terrible president he has been and hopefully people will come to their senses and vote him out. this guy actually wants high prices to push his green agenda when high gas prices are the MOST regressive hit on low income people.
however, the republicans are busy shooting themselves so obama will probably get a second term. his contention that things are getting better is absurd. foreclosures will also skyrocket this year, and unemployment numbers don't include those who have given up... it's more like 15%.
about reagan - ending the cold war after the disastrous carter presidency was worth it for one thing. also, as a percentage of GDP, reagan's debts were FAR lower than today.
about obama - he, like reagan, inherited a horrible economy. difference is, reagan cut taxes and inspired confidence and believed a rising tide lifts all boats (and it did). obama has ranted endlessly about making anyone making decent money (not even rich) pay "their fair share" (more) while offering more and more 'credits' and breaks and welfare for those who pay NO taxes, and endlessly ranting about unfairness, etc. and also massively increasing regulation on business, he killed most energy exploration, killed the pipeline, passed or pushed insanely bureaucratic and expensive programs and the national debt now exceeds 100% of GDP, a national disgrace.
i am HOPING gas prices skyrocket this summer, to show once and for all, what a terrible, terrible president he has been and hopefully people will come to their senses and vote him out. this guy actually wants high prices to push his green agenda when high gas prices are the MOST regressive hit on low income people.
however, the republicans are busy shooting themselves so obama will probably get a second term. his contention that things are getting better is absurd. foreclosures will also skyrocket this year, and unemployment numbers don't include those who have given up... it's more like 15%.
LOL @ coal generated electricity being a bad thing --
using Coal fired electricity generating plants are still cleaner than using gas in your car....you have to figure in all the crude oil production / pollution required to get the crude out of the ground and refine it into gas...not to mention the exhaust from the ICE.
I'd rather use coal generated electricity rather than beg other countries for crude....60% of our oil is still imported via:
Canada (18.2%)
Mexico (11.4%)
Saudi Arabia (11.0%)
Venezuela (10.1%)
Nigeria (8.4%)
Last edited by bagwell; 02-22-12 at 09:26 AM.
02-22-12, 08:51 PM
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
#math-and-history-fail
about reagan - ending the cold war after the disastrous carter presidency was worth it for one thing. also, as a percentage of GDP, reagan's debts were FAR lower than today.
about obama - he, like reagan, inherited a horrible economy. difference is, reagan cut taxes and inspired confidence and believed a rising tide lifts all boats (and it did). obama has ranted endlessly about making anyone making decent money (not even rich) pay "their fair share" (more) while offering more and more 'credits' and breaks and welfare for those who pay NO taxes, and endlessly ranting about unfairness, etc. and also massively increasing regulation on business, he killed most energy exploration, killed the pipeline, passed or pushed insanely bureaucratic and expensive programs and the national debt now exceeds 100% of GDP, a national disgrace.
i am HOPING gas prices skyrocket this summer, to show once and for all, what a terrible, terrible president he has been and hopefully people will come to their senses and vote him out. this guy actually wants high prices to push his green agenda when high gas prices are the MOST regressive hit on low income people.
however, the republicans are busy shooting themselves so obama will probably get a second term. his contention that things are getting better is absurd. foreclosures will also skyrocket this year, and unemployment numbers don't include those who have given up... it's more like 15%.
about reagan - ending the cold war after the disastrous carter presidency was worth it for one thing. also, as a percentage of GDP, reagan's debts were FAR lower than today.
about obama - he, like reagan, inherited a horrible economy. difference is, reagan cut taxes and inspired confidence and believed a rising tide lifts all boats (and it did). obama has ranted endlessly about making anyone making decent money (not even rich) pay "their fair share" (more) while offering more and more 'credits' and breaks and welfare for those who pay NO taxes, and endlessly ranting about unfairness, etc. and also massively increasing regulation on business, he killed most energy exploration, killed the pipeline, passed or pushed insanely bureaucratic and expensive programs and the national debt now exceeds 100% of GDP, a national disgrace.
i am HOPING gas prices skyrocket this summer, to show once and for all, what a terrible, terrible president he has been and hopefully people will come to their senses and vote him out. this guy actually wants high prices to push his green agenda when high gas prices are the MOST regressive hit on low income people.
however, the republicans are busy shooting themselves so obama will probably get a second term. his contention that things are getting better is absurd. foreclosures will also skyrocket this year, and unemployment numbers don't include those who have given up... it's more like 15%.
If little John met Goberchav he would have been called a hero The U.S.S.R was falling down and Regan was just president at the time mind you we spent billions on "star wars" to fight a county that no longer exists! Brilliant!!
Things are getting better, housing, jobs, Dow all improving... It's just not an overnight process.
02-22-12, 10:29 PM
#52
Obama has a bad reputation for his little government funded projects.
Don't get me wrong, this is not a right vs left thing but just looking at his track record, you know why...
$10,000 for a car that already cost over $200,000 in tax payer money to produce? EACH?
Just let GM fail....they've gambled, got bailed out, gambled again and are now getting another bailout.
Don't get me wrong, this is not a right vs left thing but just looking at his track record, you know why...
$10,000 for a car that already cost over $200,000 in tax payer money to produce? EACH?
Just let GM fail....they've gambled, got bailed out, gambled again and are now getting another bailout.
02-23-12, 04:02 AM
#53
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 7,864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now that GM is turning out profit again, why can't they subsidize the Volt themselves - just as Toyota lost money for years with the Prius?
I know that GM basically makes no money on the Volt right now (heard it costs at least $40K to build), but sorry to say, they need to be selling this one model at a loss. Let profit from the rest of the lineup compensate. This is assuming GM wants the Volt - and electric cars - to succeed.
I think initially, why not take a $10K hit on each one. It's not like it's that high volume anyway. The more they end up selling, the cheaper they become to build. Otherwise, this thing is going to simply fail and end up being a costly mistake.
I know that GM basically makes no money on the Volt right now (heard it costs at least $40K to build), but sorry to say, they need to be selling this one model at a loss. Let profit from the rest of the lineup compensate. This is assuming GM wants the Volt - and electric cars - to succeed.
I think initially, why not take a $10K hit on each one. It's not like it's that high volume anyway. The more they end up selling, the cheaper they become to build. Otherwise, this thing is going to simply fail and end up being a costly mistake.
02-23-12, 05:05 AM
#54
Pole Position
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lake Country, WI
Posts: 2,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The TRUTH
Cannot even begin to cover the absolute "F"-up this administration has done in regards to alternative energy... my group deals with it every day....
If EVERY wind farm project was approved back in 2009 they would not meet DOE's requirements for 2025... it's 2012 and they have approved 10% folks... the $85 billion from the stimulus designated for AE... only $9 billion had been accounted for.... the rest.....?????????????????????????
Oh yeah... more Volt:
http://gas2.org/2012/02/20/ge-forcin...o-chevy-volts/
If EVERY wind farm project was approved back in 2009 they would not meet DOE's requirements for 2025... it's 2012 and they have approved 10% folks... the $85 billion from the stimulus designated for AE... only $9 billion had been accounted for.... the rest.....?????????????????????????
Oh yeah... more Volt:
http://gas2.org/2012/02/20/ge-forcin...o-chevy-volts/
GE “Forcing” Employees Into Chevy Volts
February 20, 2012 By Christopher DeMorro
Source: Gas 2.0 (http://s.tt/15LON)
General Motors and General Electric are two companies that have been in the political crosshairs lately. GM stands accused of “crony capitalism,” while GE is under fire for paying no Federal income taxes in 2010. The two companies share more than that though, with GE placing an order for 12,000 Chevy Volts and other hybrid vehicles.
A memo leaked to Green Car Reports lays out GE’s plans for their new fleet of Volts, and as expected, it has some people crying foul.
The memo, sent to employees of GE Healthcare Americas team explains that all sedan, crossover, and minivan purchases in 2012 will be replaced by the Chevy Volt. Only field engineers are excepted from having to drive a company Volt.
GE will offer estimates for installation Level 2 Charging Stations, though all-gas use will be allowed when there is no electric option. Any employees who opt out of the Volt program will not be compensated for their expenses. Those who do choose to drive the Volt will be reimbursed for public charging and home charging costs, in addition to gas uses.
While some people are probably put off by having to drive a Volt, GE claims to have crunched the numbers and believes that in the long term, this will save the multi-national company big bucks. More than that though, GE is positioning itself as a big player in the EV charging market. Getting employees into Volts also means getting charging stations into homes.
It’s a bold move to be sure, and it will hopefully prove to be a boon to the Volt’s flagging sales numbers. GM had hopped to sell as many as 60,000 Volts in 2012, before dropping that number to 45,000. Will they even make that number though? Hard to tell, though GE’s business will go a long way towards giving the Volt some sales momentum.
Source: Green Car Reports
Source: Gas 2.0 (http://s.tt/15LON)
February 20, 2012 By Christopher DeMorro
Source: Gas 2.0 (http://s.tt/15LON)
General Motors and General Electric are two companies that have been in the political crosshairs lately. GM stands accused of “crony capitalism,” while GE is under fire for paying no Federal income taxes in 2010. The two companies share more than that though, with GE placing an order for 12,000 Chevy Volts and other hybrid vehicles.
A memo leaked to Green Car Reports lays out GE’s plans for their new fleet of Volts, and as expected, it has some people crying foul.
The memo, sent to employees of GE Healthcare Americas team explains that all sedan, crossover, and minivan purchases in 2012 will be replaced by the Chevy Volt. Only field engineers are excepted from having to drive a company Volt.
GE will offer estimates for installation Level 2 Charging Stations, though all-gas use will be allowed when there is no electric option. Any employees who opt out of the Volt program will not be compensated for their expenses. Those who do choose to drive the Volt will be reimbursed for public charging and home charging costs, in addition to gas uses.
While some people are probably put off by having to drive a Volt, GE claims to have crunched the numbers and believes that in the long term, this will save the multi-national company big bucks. More than that though, GE is positioning itself as a big player in the EV charging market. Getting employees into Volts also means getting charging stations into homes.
It’s a bold move to be sure, and it will hopefully prove to be a boon to the Volt’s flagging sales numbers. GM had hopped to sell as many as 60,000 Volts in 2012, before dropping that number to 45,000. Will they even make that number though? Hard to tell, though GE’s business will go a long way towards giving the Volt some sales momentum.
Source: Green Car Reports
Source: Gas 2.0 (http://s.tt/15LON)
02-23-12, 06:28 AM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
on every leftie's favorite, fox news, 
one host was loaned a volt to get to work as a test, and after his 12 hr charges he gets about 18 miles on electricity. 
monumental fail and we have to pay for it, first with gm bail out, now with subsidies - it's disgusting.
one host was loaned a volt to get to work as a test, and after his 12 hr charges he gets about 18 miles on electricity. monumental fail and we have to pay for it, first with gm bail out, now with subsidies - it's disgusting.
02-23-12, 06:35 AM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
what book(s), articles have you read that support this?
as they say, luck is where opportunity meets preparation. when reagan saw the opportunity, he pushed like crazy (partly thanks to margaret thatcher) to convince gorbachev he could never 'win'. as for the ussr falling down, yes, it might have failed anyway, but could have been in a much more dangerous way.
star wars, or space based defense matters against all countries, and is still going on... 
not convinced. at all. and while the economy has the potential to grow even DESPITE obama's ongoing efforts to destroy it in his idea of 'fairness', his efforts to hurt the economy far outweigh any (what?) efforts to help.
he will go down as one of the worst presidents ever. on ideology, corruption, and incompetence. a terrible combination.
If little John met Goberchav he would have been called a hero The U.S.S.R was falling down and Regan was just president at the time
mind you we spent billions on "star wars" to fight a county that no longer exists! Brilliant!!
Things are getting better, housing, jobs, Dow all improving... It's just not an overnight process.
he will go down as one of the worst presidents ever. on ideology, corruption, and incompetence. a terrible combination.
02-23-12, 08:08 AM
#59
Lexus Champion
I agree Joe. Was just being sarcastic. Romney still seems the most electable of the Rep. candidates although it''s not really a dream team out there.
