Brake Service \ Part issue at JM Lexus
12-01-11, 07:26 PM
#16
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Regg,
From my understanding and I'm pretty clear on this, the Lexus dealer is not going to do anything unless you specifically ask. They do not want to be liable or be faulted for changing something the customer did not request, even if it might possibly be in the customers best interest.
Trust me, I love my dealer Hennessy Lexus of Gwinnett through and through but even though we have a great relationship, they are not going to install anything without my consent even if it might be good for me. They always call if there is a change or something available.
Now maybe JM could have called you and given you that heads up/option. I think they could have done a better job there and I'm with you 100% there. They should put themselves in your shoes, take 3 minutes and pick up the phone and ask.
Looks like a reason for a BBK
From my understanding and I'm pretty clear on this, the Lexus dealer is not going to do anything unless you specifically ask. They do not want to be liable or be faulted for changing something the customer did not request, even if it might possibly be in the customers best interest.
Trust me, I love my dealer Hennessy Lexus of Gwinnett through and through but even though we have a great relationship, they are not going to install anything without my consent even if it might be good for me. They always call if there is a change or something available.
Now maybe JM could have called you and given you that heads up/option. I think they could have done a better job there and I'm with you 100% there. They should put themselves in your shoes, take 3 minutes and pick up the phone and ask.
Looks like a reason for a BBK
12-01-11, 07:27 PM
#17
Dysfunctional Veteran
Not if its the regular OEM part. Unless if you ask for a specific non-OEM part (their replacement catalogs still recommend the dusty pads), the dealership will follow regular guidelines.
There are way too many replaceable consumables on a car for a dealership, or any non-dealership service business, to determine specific brands and types for the customer. It's a customers' responsibility to tell a serviceman what they want. Not all service technicians will "guess" that a non-OEM part is preferred over the recommended OEM one.
Do they ask you what brand of oil you prefer during an oil change?
Do they ask if you want regular water or special windshield wiper fluid in your reservoir?
Do they ask you if you want what type of soap or wax or dash cleaner to use when they wash your car?
Too many factors for a dealer to decide for you. You decide for you. You tell them what you want.
If you asked for a glass of water, I'd give you a glass of water. If you would have preferred one with ice, you have to tell me...
There are way too many replaceable consumables on a car for a dealership, or any non-dealership service business, to determine specific brands and types for the customer. It's a customers' responsibility to tell a serviceman what they want. Not all service technicians will "guess" that a non-OEM part is preferred over the recommended OEM one.
Do they ask you what brand of oil you prefer during an oil change?
Do they ask if you want regular water or special windshield wiper fluid in your reservoir?
Do they ask you if you want what type of soap or wax or dash cleaner to use when they wash your car?
Too many factors for a dealer to decide for you. You decide for you. You tell them what you want.
If you asked for a glass of water, I'd give you a glass of water. If you would have preferred one with ice, you have to tell me...
I noticed in the past you like to debate.
Look, I already had the no-dust pads on the car.
Customers should be asked if there truly is an option. Even my service writer didn't know there was an option. I was there when he called the tech. He knew they were feeding him balogna with that customer choice crap. It was obvious to him and me they had these old pads in stock and were trying to slip them in to customers who either don't know the difference or too busy to bring their car back.
The stupid part is that I already had the no-dust pads. There is a different part number. They purposely put on the old dust making pad.
That's the appearance of a sneak. What's up with you? Let it go.
Look, I already had the no-dust pads on the car.
Customers should be asked if there truly is an option. Even my service writer didn't know there was an option. I was there when he called the tech. He knew they were feeding him balogna with that customer choice crap. It was obvious to him and me they had these old pads in stock and were trying to slip them in to customers who either don't know the difference or too busy to bring their car back.
The stupid part is that I already had the no-dust pads. There is a different part number. They purposely put on the old dust making pad.
That's the appearance of a sneak. What's up with you? Let it go.
Your brake pad issue is not nessecarily the Technician's fault...or the dealerships, as others have said. They probably should have asked...but you definately should have specified. The technician 9x out of 10 doesnt ever even see the customer, he just reads a sheet of paper or takes his orders from a shop foreman. The customer service rep would probably have noted your request on the paper had you informed him/her. Easy fix.
12-01-11, 07:28 PM
#18
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He's entitled to his opinion, just as you are. Just because I happen to agree with him doesn't enter in the fact that he gave you why he thought it was done, nothing more. He didn't call you names, tell you that you were acting foolishly, or that your misleading title isn't quite fair to the dealership, now did he?
So the service advisor didn't know. How was he supposed to know to ask? Telepathy?
If the techs are given a directive that if they don't see a change marked on the work order use the OEM pads, is it their fault? If the part numbers were still visible and the tech knew the difference, he certainly could have asked, and I'll give you that, but what if they weren't?
This is your opinion. He gave his. It's the interweb, mang, people are going to give you feedback whether you want it or not - and I seem to remember you starting a thread about giving honest feedback to other members and them having a thin skin about it...
I see it as no harm, no foul, and if they swapped in the non dusty pads, you're good.
Big Mack
It was obvious to him and me they had these old pads in stock and were trying to slip them in to customers who either don't know the difference or too busy to bring their car back. The stupid part is that I already had the no-dust pads. There is a different part number. They purposely put on the old dust making pad.
This is your opinion. He gave his. It's the interweb, mang, people are going to give you feedback whether you want it or not - and I seem to remember you starting a thread about giving honest feedback to other members and them having a thin skin about it...
I see it as no harm, no foul, and if they swapped in the non dusty pads, you're good.
Big Mack
12-01-11, 07:38 PM
#19
I prefer the "dusty" ones, brake much better tough they last less. That "dust" you see is actually rotor particles. Not from the pad. Due to a more abrasive pad compound the rotors are worn faster, giving great braking performance at a sacrifice of "dust" and faster wear.
12-01-11, 07:43 PM
#20
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A service department for a premium brand should be more responsible. I don't mind them giving out the old pads to people that don't care or that are already using them. But if a customer is using dust-free pads that were part of a service bulletin for that car, the technician should be able to recognize the dust-free pads and replace them with the same dust-free pads that you had on the car already, or at least ask if it is ok to switch you back to the old pads. This is laziness or ignorance, neither of which is a proper excuse for reverting a customer's car back to old pads when he is already using the Lexus-approved dust-free pads.
12-01-11, 07:55 PM
#21
Lexus Test Driver
Is there even a visible/marked difference between the two pads? I know for most pads, once its out of the box, it's difficult to differentiate between other ones as there are few to little markings on the metal backsides.
12-01-11, 10:49 PM
#23
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at first i thought op had a point. now i don't think jm lexus did anything wrong. you went in to have the 'brakes done', by which i assume you mean new pads? if your (non-dusty) pads were worn out, would it still be obvious to the dealer which kind you had on there? and if both sets of pads are still ok'ed by lexus corp to sell, they're not obliged to put the exact same kind on your car, so i don't see that they did anything 'sneaky'. yes, perhaps they could or should have asked, although sometimes asking customers questions like that can lead to a rat hole of other questions from the customer, and therefore sometimes it's better not to say anything because most customers wouldn't have a clue about the difference or even notice a different kind was used. i have learned in my own business that sometimes full disclosure to the customer is not the right course of action because it may make them freak out unnecessarily. as an analogy, if i ran a sausage factory, i would not explain exactly to customers how the sausage was made!
12-01-11, 11:27 PM
#25
While I don't think the dealership is trying to pull a fast one on customers, I do believe they should have a better policy in place to communicate with the customer what parts are being installed.
I have had many TSIB/TSB items replaced in many vehicles. Some even on my previous Lexus cars. For example, if I had my cars audio amp replaced under a TSIB and it later needed replacement for some reason, I would expect my replacement would be the TSIB replcedment and not the original one that demanded the TSIB in the first place. I would also expect the dealership to either inform me if I want the original or TSIB replacement part.
I have had many TSIB/TSB items replaced in many vehicles. Some even on my previous Lexus cars. For example, if I had my cars audio amp replaced under a TSIB and it later needed replacement for some reason, I would expect my replacement would be the TSIB replcedment and not the original one that demanded the TSIB in the first place. I would also expect the dealership to either inform me if I want the original or TSIB replacement part.
12-02-11, 04:47 AM
#26
Okay, I'm not stubborn.
Phillip, I aplogize if I offended you. I just felt that you were supporting the dealership without having been there to see how it all unfolded.
I've been driving since 1974. The only time I saw a dealer do something like continue to use a part that was under a service bulletin was the Chevy dealer I bought my 2 Camaro's from. That's one of the big reasons I left American cars.
I had the non-dusty pads on the car. The part numbers are different. I'm willing bet that if my regular service rep would have been at work that day, I would have gotten the right pads. The fill-in guy had a funky attitude right after I rejrcted his suggestion I might need to purchase new rotors after his tech inspects the car. I told him it was extremely rare a car with 42K miles would need new rotors. He was trying to set me up for a bigger payment. Since that didn't work, it seems he used the older pads. I bet they are cheaper.
At any rate, if you guys had witnessed the conversation between my service rep and his tech, you'd know the other guy tried to pull a sneak.
I used to brag about JMLexus service dept. They used to go above and beyond. They did things for me I never expected. It all changed when Jim Dunn took over and Jim Moran, the owner, passed away.
Those service reps are under tremendous pressure to make a profit. Getting rid of a bunch of old stock falls in line with that.
If Jim Moran was still alive, those old pads would have been gone. Who would want pads that made your wheels that dirty. Most Lexus owners keep their cars clean.
I only posted this thread to put it out there...so that others would be aware to make sure they got the pads they want. I was being overly dramatic and I thought a little funny. I didn't expect hardcore analysis and rebuttle.
Again, I apologize if I came on too strong.
Phillip, I aplogize if I offended you. I just felt that you were supporting the dealership without having been there to see how it all unfolded.
I've been driving since 1974. The only time I saw a dealer do something like continue to use a part that was under a service bulletin was the Chevy dealer I bought my 2 Camaro's from. That's one of the big reasons I left American cars.
I had the non-dusty pads on the car. The part numbers are different. I'm willing bet that if my regular service rep would have been at work that day, I would have gotten the right pads. The fill-in guy had a funky attitude right after I rejrcted his suggestion I might need to purchase new rotors after his tech inspects the car. I told him it was extremely rare a car with 42K miles would need new rotors. He was trying to set me up for a bigger payment. Since that didn't work, it seems he used the older pads. I bet they are cheaper.
At any rate, if you guys had witnessed the conversation between my service rep and his tech, you'd know the other guy tried to pull a sneak.
I used to brag about JMLexus service dept. They used to go above and beyond. They did things for me I never expected. It all changed when Jim Dunn took over and Jim Moran, the owner, passed away.
Those service reps are under tremendous pressure to make a profit. Getting rid of a bunch of old stock falls in line with that.
If Jim Moran was still alive, those old pads would have been gone. Who would want pads that made your wheels that dirty. Most Lexus owners keep their cars clean.
I only posted this thread to put it out there...so that others would be aware to make sure they got the pads they want. I was being overly dramatic and I thought a little funny. I didn't expect hardcore analysis and rebuttle.
Again, I apologize if I came on too strong.
Last edited by Ice350; 12-02-11 at 04:55 AM.
12-02-11, 05:22 AM
#27
I would have mentioned I have the low dust pads and that's what I want.The old pads weren't a 'recalled part".
I can't blame the dealer for installing the regular pads which come with the car.
As far as the part #'s,A service guy isn't going to look at part#'s.He gets the parts from the parts dept and does the install.
Should the service advisor given you a pad choice?Maybe but most if not all wouldn't have.
I rarely use dealers other than for warranty work.I have friends with shops that do my mechanical and collision work.
I can't blame the dealer for installing the regular pads which come with the car.
As far as the part #'s,A service guy isn't going to look at part#'s.He gets the parts from the parts dept and does the install.
Should the service advisor given you a pad choice?Maybe but most if not all wouldn't have.
I rarely use dealers other than for warranty work.I have friends with shops that do my mechanical and collision work.
Last edited by Joeb427; 12-02-11 at 05:39 AM.
12-02-11, 05:39 AM
#28
Dysfunctional Veteran
Reggie, for 1, you did not include this info on your first post. For 2, I also think that with this new information you have every right to be upset...However, I still think that the fault is (hard as it is to hear) mostly your's for allowing yourself to be "taken advantage of". It is a known fact that many dealerships will take adnvantage of their customers if they are allowed to. The way I (and most people should want to) get around this is to educate yourself (which you have clearly done) and ensure that the tech/customer service rep knows what you want. Thats the part that didnt happen. 
I may have come on too strong as well, if so I apologize, but as a mod, its my job to uphold the sense of community on CL. You have nearly 10k posts. You know how we are
.
I may have come on too strong as well, if so I apologize, but as a mod, its my job to uphold the sense of community on CL. You have nearly 10k posts. You know how we are
.
12-02-11, 01:18 PM
#30
Since the TSIB was performed if/when the customer complains about a specific problem, would the OP now be able to complain about excessive dusting again and get the low dust pads under TSIB again? Generally when a TSIB is performed on a car the replacement TSIB part is used for the rest of its serviceable life. The dealership knows the TSIB was performed on this specific car and could have just read the maintenance history. If the dealership had no way of tracking TSIB work, then what is to prevent customers to asking for TSIB work on the same bulletin all the time?
I'm a big DIYer and perform a lot of my own work simply because I am too cheap to pay someone else to do simple jobs. However, the dealership should be a place where a customer can simply drop his car off, pay an arm and a leg and get the job done correctly without having to to the research and explain everything to the Service Department. That is their job and what they get paid for.