2011 NHTSA crash test A LOT more stringent: Toyota Camry rated 3 stars
10-05-10, 08:56 PM
#16
Lexus Fanatic
And, of course, it remains to be seen how much re-engineering vehicles to pass new NHTSA and IIHS tests (or get the new higher ratings) will cost....automakers are already being cash-strapped just to pass the new CAFE/emission rules coming up in 2015. Vehicle prices are likely to go up. And, they could actually end up working at cross-purposes.....making cars smaller and lighter to pass mileage requirements could also make them more safety-vulnerable in crashes, so you rob Peter to pay Paul.
Last edited by mmarshall; 10-05-10 at 09:03 PM.
10-05-10, 09:07 PM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
10-06-10, 11:16 AM
#19
usually old cars are not retested under new standard, because they were made when old standards were in place... Big difference in new test is that rear passengers were tested in pole test, which was not requirement before and older vehicles did not have special support in the back.
If you check actual test you will see Camry scoring 4 stars for front passanger and 2 stars for the back one.
p.s. So what happens with Sonata customers that purchased car before July 2010? They get less secure one?
If you check actual test you will see Camry scoring 4 stars for front passanger and 2 stars for the back one.
p.s. So what happens with Sonata customers that purchased car before July 2010? They get less secure one?
10-06-10, 12:20 PM
#20
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It's funny how the government is pushing these new safety standards right when they are also demanding huge gas efficiency hikes through the new nearly unattainable CAFE standards. You can tell these are not at all engineers writing these new requirements because then they might realize how hard it is to achieve under realistic economics.
Safety is why today's cars are as heavy as they are which negates gas efficiency. Cars are now going to be even heavier yet they want fleets to average 35 MPG. Yup, big heavy cars that get what a little Yaris gets in just a few years. This is a huge mountain of technology to climb while just trying to stay afloat in a rough economy.
This is not to say I don't want safer cars. I do. But in combination with ridiculous CAFE standards, it could bankrupt some companies.
Safety is why today's cars are as heavy as they are which negates gas efficiency. Cars are now going to be even heavier yet they want fleets to average 35 MPG. Yup, big heavy cars that get what a little Yaris gets in just a few years. This is a huge mountain of technology to climb while just trying to stay afloat in a rough economy.
This is not to say I don't want safer cars. I do. But in combination with ridiculous CAFE standards, it could bankrupt some companies.
10-07-10, 01:03 AM
#21
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I must agree with others, why single out the Camry here? The thread title is flame baiting IMO. Other vehicles like the Nissan Versa got only 2/5 stars. Why aren't we discussing that vehicle for example?
Also as a correction, the 2011 Sonata initially got 4/5 stars, but Hyundai made some changes to the model, and only after being re-tested did it get 5 stars.
Also there is something strange with the methodology the NHTSA is using for these new ratings. Some vehicles that have received a top safety pick from the IIHS are only rated 4/5 stars by this new methodology.
Speaking strictly about the front and side impact crash tests, I don't see how these are more stringent than the IIHS tests.
It seems to me that these new NHTSA ratings include not just the crash performance of the vehicle, but technology features affect the rating as well. It seems the NHTSA now considers lane departure warning systems as part of the overall star rating
.
In other words, some of these new NHTSA ratings might be a bit misleading as features can sway the star rating, even if the vehicle performed well in the crash tests.
Also as a correction, the 2011 Sonata initially got 4/5 stars, but Hyundai made some changes to the model, and only after being re-tested did it get 5 stars.
Also there is something strange with the methodology the NHTSA is using for these new ratings. Some vehicles that have received a top safety pick from the IIHS are only rated 4/5 stars by this new methodology.
Speaking strictly about the front and side impact crash tests, I don't see how these are more stringent than the IIHS tests.
It seems to me that these new NHTSA ratings include not just the crash performance of the vehicle, but technology features affect the rating as well. It seems the NHTSA now considers lane departure warning systems as part of the overall star rating
.In other words, some of these new NHTSA ratings might be a bit misleading as features can sway the star rating, even if the vehicle performed well in the crash tests.
10-07-10, 06:21 AM
#22
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The Toyota witch hunt is disgusting.
Of course this didn't make news anywhere. The witch hunt is over, the damage is done. Odd no more runaway Toyota's all over the place right. Just a few months ago they were crashing all over the place.:P
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/toy...k=MW_news_stmp
Of course this didn't make news anywhere. The witch hunt is over, the damage is done. Odd no more runaway Toyota's all over the place right. Just a few months ago they were crashing all over the place.:P
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/toy...k=MW_news_stmp
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — Drivers appear to be much less fearful of unintended acceleration these days, Toyota Motor Corp. said Monday in an update on its ramped-up safety efforts.
The Japanese auto maker, still working to recover from a rash of safety recalls, reported that the amount of customers voicing concern over acceleration problems has dropped 80% since April.
Is texting the biggest driving distraction?
A new report suggests that drivers are becoming more distracted by eating, reading or even playing with their animals, but the White House is disputing the numbers released by the Highway Loss Data Institute. Video courtesy of Fox News.
“Toyota has made significant progress in recent months to help ensure that our customers can have complete confidence in the quality, safety and reliability of their vehicles, and our latest initiatives build on those accomplishments,” said Steve St. Angelo, Toyota’s chief quality officer.
He also pointed out that Toyota engineers, after examining 4,200 vehicles, were unable to find a single case in which an electronic throttle system glitch would lead to sudden unintended acceleration.
Overall, Toyota /quotes/comstock/13*!tm/quotes/nls/tm (TM 71.27, +0.08, +0.11%) said it has performed more than 5 million remedies for the three recalls announced in the past year, including 1.8 million to address sticky pedals, 3.1 million to take care of mats that could trap the pedal and about 128,000 to update the antilock-brake systems in certain 2010 Prius and Lexus models.
A Toyota employee works on an engine in Huntsville, Ala.
Toyota came under fire earlier this year and faced congressional lawmakers, after mounting recalls and failing to react promptly led to stinging criticism from U.S. regulators and a record fine of more that $16.4 million.
Consumers, long accustomed to Toyota’s track record for quality, have turned on the brand in the wake of the recalls. Sales have underperformed rivals, with Toyota’s market share dropping to 15.2% so far this year from 16.6% through September 2009.
“Toyota should really be doing better by now, but these lingering effects have been a challenge,” said Nationwide Chief Economist Paul Ballew, who’s a former sales analyst in the auto industry. “They are languishing worse than we’d thought.”
Shares of Toyota closed down 1.4% at $70.79 on Monday and have now lost 16% so far this year.
The Japanese auto maker, still working to recover from a rash of safety recalls, reported that the amount of customers voicing concern over acceleration problems has dropped 80% since April.
Is texting the biggest driving distraction?
A new report suggests that drivers are becoming more distracted by eating, reading or even playing with their animals, but the White House is disputing the numbers released by the Highway Loss Data Institute. Video courtesy of Fox News.
“Toyota has made significant progress in recent months to help ensure that our customers can have complete confidence in the quality, safety and reliability of their vehicles, and our latest initiatives build on those accomplishments,” said Steve St. Angelo, Toyota’s chief quality officer.
He also pointed out that Toyota engineers, after examining 4,200 vehicles, were unable to find a single case in which an electronic throttle system glitch would lead to sudden unintended acceleration.
Overall, Toyota /quotes/comstock/13*!tm/quotes/nls/tm (TM 71.27, +0.08, +0.11%) said it has performed more than 5 million remedies for the three recalls announced in the past year, including 1.8 million to address sticky pedals, 3.1 million to take care of mats that could trap the pedal and about 128,000 to update the antilock-brake systems in certain 2010 Prius and Lexus models.
A Toyota employee works on an engine in Huntsville, Ala.
Toyota came under fire earlier this year and faced congressional lawmakers, after mounting recalls and failing to react promptly led to stinging criticism from U.S. regulators and a record fine of more that $16.4 million.
Consumers, long accustomed to Toyota’s track record for quality, have turned on the brand in the wake of the recalls. Sales have underperformed rivals, with Toyota’s market share dropping to 15.2% so far this year from 16.6% through September 2009.
“Toyota should really be doing better by now, but these lingering effects have been a challenge,” said Nationwide Chief Economist Paul Ballew, who’s a former sales analyst in the auto industry. “They are languishing worse than we’d thought.”
Shares of Toyota closed down 1.4% at $70.79 on Monday and have now lost 16% so far this year.
10-07-10, 08:44 AM
#23
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I must agree with others, why single out the Camry here? The thread title is flame baiting IMO. Other vehicles like the Nissan Versa got only 2/5 stars. Why aren't we discussing that vehicle for example?
Also as a correction, the 2011 Sonata initially got 4/5 stars, but Hyundai made some changes to the model, and only after being re-tested did it get 5 stars.
Also there is something strange with the methodology the NHTSA is using for these new ratings. Some vehicles that have received a top safety pick from the IIHS are only rated 4/5 stars by this new methodology.
Speaking strictly about the front and side impact crash tests, I don't see how these are more stringent than the IIHS tests.
It seems to me that these new NHTSA ratings include not just the crash performance of the vehicle, but technology features affect the rating as well. It seems the NHTSA now considers lane departure warning systems as part of the overall star rating.
In other words, some of these new NHTSA ratings might be a bit misleading as features can sway the star rating, even if the vehicle performed well in the crash tests.
Also as a correction, the 2011 Sonata initially got 4/5 stars, but Hyundai made some changes to the model, and only after being re-tested did it get 5 stars.
Also there is something strange with the methodology the NHTSA is using for these new ratings. Some vehicles that have received a top safety pick from the IIHS are only rated 4/5 stars by this new methodology.
Speaking strictly about the front and side impact crash tests, I don't see how these are more stringent than the IIHS tests.
It seems to me that these new NHTSA ratings include not just the crash performance of the vehicle, but technology features affect the rating as well. It seems the NHTSA now considers lane departure warning systems as part of the overall star rating
.In other words, some of these new NHTSA ratings might be a bit misleading as features can sway the star rating, even if the vehicle performed well in the crash tests.
10-07-10, 08:52 AM
#24
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Lol so now "magically" unintended acceleration claims have dropped 80%? That's probably directly in line with the drop of media coverage on this issue. So where are the haters now, that still think these were Toyota defects and flaws? 
The cold hard truth is that virtually all of these unintended acceleration "issues" occured because of stupid drivers who couldn't tell apart the gas pedal from the brake pedal. There were a few rare exceptional cases where the problem was more than that, but that is it.
The cold hard truth is that virtually all of these unintended acceleration "issues" occured because of stupid drivers who couldn't tell apart the gas pedal from the brake pedal. There were a few rare exceptional cases where the problem was more than that, but that is it.
10-07-10, 08:56 AM
#25
I must agree with others, why single out the Camry here? The thread title is flame baiting IMO. Other vehicles like the Nissan Versa got only 2/5 stars. Why aren't we discussing that vehicle for example?
Also as a correction, the 2011 Sonata initially got 4/5 stars, but Hyundai made some changes to the model, and only after being re-tested did it get 5 stars.
Also there is something strange with the methodology the NHTSA is using for these new ratings. Some vehicles that have received a top safety pick from the IIHS are only rated 4/5 stars by this new methodology.
Speaking strictly about the front and side impact crash tests, I don't see how these are more stringent than the IIHS tests.
It seems to me that these new NHTSA ratings include not just the crash performance of the vehicle, but technology features affect the rating as well. It seems the NHTSA now considers lane departure warning systems as part of the overall star rating.
In other words, some of these new NHTSA ratings might be a bit misleading as features can sway the star rating, even if the vehicle performed well in the crash tests.
Also as a correction, the 2011 Sonata initially got 4/5 stars, but Hyundai made some changes to the model, and only after being re-tested did it get 5 stars.
Also there is something strange with the methodology the NHTSA is using for these new ratings. Some vehicles that have received a top safety pick from the IIHS are only rated 4/5 stars by this new methodology.
Speaking strictly about the front and side impact crash tests, I don't see how these are more stringent than the IIHS tests.
It seems to me that these new NHTSA ratings include not just the crash performance of the vehicle, but technology features affect the rating as well. It seems the NHTSA now considers lane departure warning systems as part of the overall star rating
.In other words, some of these new NHTSA ratings might be a bit misleading as features can sway the star rating, even if the vehicle performed well in the crash tests.
first, i am very happy that NHTSA tighten up the test so the results now give more meaningful ratings between cars. i am sure cars nowadays are much safer than they were 20 yrs ago, but that's not the point. we need a better measure and comparison between cars now.
it doesn't matter what happened and how, but the fact is camry got 3 stars. and since it's really one of the bread and butter from toyota, one that they have been claiming best selling for years, yup, i think they should take it seriously and do it right.
the way i see it, 2 wrong doesn't make it right. if you make a product, you try to make it great. it doesn't matter if most of the others out there are considered the same as you or worse than you, otherwise you look for no improvement coz' you think you are just among the pack.
10-07-10, 09:23 AM
#26
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you SURE you really want to compare the camry to versa?
first, i am very happy that NHTSA tighten up the test so the results now give more meaningful ratings between cars. i am sure cars nowadays are much safer than they were 20 yrs ago, but that's not the point. we need a better measure and comparison between cars now.
it doesn't matter what happened and how, but the fact is camry got 3 stars. and since it's really one of the bread and butter from toyota, one that they have been claiming best selling for years, yup, i think they should take it seriously and do it right.
the way i see it, 2 wrong doesn't make it right. if you make a product, you try to make it great. it doesn't matter if most of the others out there are considered the same as you or worse than you, otherwise you look for no improvement coz' you think you are just among the pack.
first, i am very happy that NHTSA tighten up the test so the results now give more meaningful ratings between cars. i am sure cars nowadays are much safer than they were 20 yrs ago, but that's not the point. we need a better measure and comparison between cars now.
it doesn't matter what happened and how, but the fact is camry got 3 stars. and since it's really one of the bread and butter from toyota, one that they have been claiming best selling for years, yup, i think they should take it seriously and do it right.
the way i see it, 2 wrong doesn't make it right. if you make a product, you try to make it great. it doesn't matter if most of the others out there are considered the same as you or worse than you, otherwise you look for no improvement coz' you think you are just among the pack.
IIHS front test by the way is done at 40 mph, and side impact IIHS test is done at 31 mph.
Cars like the Subaru Legacy and Outback both got top safety pick rating from IIHS, yet only 4/5 stars in this NHTSA rating. I find that interesting.
We need to keep in mind that NHTSA does not do a roof strength test.
With that said, the Camry is an old model about to be replaced by a new redesigned model, so I think it's a bit unfair to compare it to new vehicles like the 2011 Sonata or 2011 Taurus.
Let's see how the 2012 Camry does compared to the competition.
Also keep in mind the new NHTSA front impact test is a head-on impact, not an offset impact like the IIHS test. A front offset test IMO is more realistic as real-world crashes rarely occur exactly head on.
So in conclusion, I would still consider IIHS testing more realistic as they do front offset test as well as roof strength testing. The NHTSA does do side pole testing now which is realistic and relevant.
10-08-10, 05:00 AM
#27
Lexus Champion
JNCAP and Euro NCAP latest revision now include include impact and testing involving frontal collisions with pedestrians.......
yup, so stuff like pop-up hoods/bonnets to help shield & protect pedestrians will be taken into account. I guess they'll do the same thing in America as well.......
Btw, for the automakers, it sucks that they have to deal with so many regulations and standards (i.e. Euro 6 emissions taking effect in year 2014, etc.)
Still, there is not much choice. Comply or they'll prevent you from selling your cars in their jurisdiction................
It's a win though for consumers though.
yup, so stuff like pop-up hoods/bonnets to help shield & protect pedestrians will be taken into account. I guess they'll do the same thing in America as well.......
Btw, for the automakers, it sucks that they have to deal with so many regulations and standards (i.e. Euro 6 emissions taking effect in year 2014, etc.)
Still, there is not much choice. Comply or they'll prevent you from selling your cars in their jurisdiction................
It's a win though for consumers though.
10-08-10, 07:51 AM
#28
JNCAP and Euro NCAP latest revision now include include impact and testing involving frontal collisions with pedestrians.......
yup, so stuff like pop-up hoods/bonnets to help shield & protect pedestrians will be taken into account. I guess they'll do the same thing in America as well.......
Btw, for the automakers, it sucks that they have to deal with so many regulations and standards (i.e. Euro 6 emissions taking effect in year 2014, etc.)
Still, there is not much choice. Comply or they'll prevent you from selling your cars in their jurisdiction................
It's a win though for consumers though.
yup, so stuff like pop-up hoods/bonnets to help shield & protect pedestrians will be taken into account. I guess they'll do the same thing in America as well.......
Btw, for the automakers, it sucks that they have to deal with so many regulations and standards (i.e. Euro 6 emissions taking effect in year 2014, etc.)
Still, there is not much choice. Comply or they'll prevent you from selling your cars in their jurisdiction................
It's a win though for consumers though.
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