Toyota: $50K Hydrogen Sedan Will Be Ready by 2015
05-12-10, 12:45 PM
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Toyota: $50K Hydrogen Sedan Will Be Ready by 2015
Electric vehicles get the lion's share of the attention in the world of futuristic automotive technology, and for good reason--automakers are quickly sending reasonably priced EVs down the pipeline, and startups like Coulomb and Better Place are hard at work building an EV charging infrastructure. But we can't count out hydrogen fuel cell technology quite yet. Toyota--the automaker perhaps best known for producing hybrid vehicles--now claims that it will be able to produce a $50,000 hydrogen sedan by 2015, according to Green Car Reports.
That's not an impressive price considering that there are multiple sub-$40,000 EVs being released later this year (including the Nissan Leaf and Chevrolet Volt), but consider this: Toyota claims that the cost to build hydrogen fuel cell vehicles has plunged 90% in under 10 years. And Toyota is far from the only automaker to invest in fuel cell technology. GM, Honda, and Daimler all have research programs of their own.
But while startups like SunHydro are convinced that hydrogen technology will end up being practical, it seems like most automakers are only investing in fuel cell vehicles as a backup plan. After all, it's unlikely that we'll have three fueling infrastructures (gasoline, electric, and hydrogen), and automakers appear to be rushing out EVs as fast as possible. It's always wise to have a backup plan, though, right?
Last edited by (Cj); 05-12-10 at 12:51 PM.
05-12-10, 02:10 PM
#2
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I know that some of you like to throw stones at Honda, but this is one area where Honda, currently, is far ahead of Toyota. The hydrogen fuel-cell FCX is just about ready to hit the market now, though the first "Sales" will more likely be factory-program leases than conventional sales.
There was also an earlier, boxier FCX, but it was never released to the general public, and was used mostly by Government and municipal agencies as a test-be for evaluation.
I plan to review an FCX if I get a chance, but that will not be likely, at least for a while.
Mercedes is also working on hydrogen-fuel-cell versions of the A and B-Class models. They will probably first be introduced in Europe and then come here.
There was also an earlier, boxier FCX, but it was never released to the general public, and was used mostly by Government and municipal agencies as a test-be for evaluation.
I plan to review an FCX if I get a chance, but that will not be likely, at least for a while.
Mercedes is also working on hydrogen-fuel-cell versions of the A and B-Class models. They will probably first be introduced in Europe and then come here.
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-12-10 at 02:20 PM.
05-12-10, 02:17 PM
#3
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One thing, of course, that could hinder not only the Honda FCX/Mercedes A/B class fuel-cell cars, but this new Toyota project as well, is the simple lack of re-fuelling stations. In most cases, you can't just pull into a neighborhood station and say "fill it up with 50,000-PSI compressed hydrogen". We've got to get moving with more alternate-fuel stations not only for hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles, but for diesel, ethanol/E85, propane, natural gas, and electric-charging stations as well.
05-12-10, 02:27 PM
#4
I've driven the FCX before and it feels torquier than most other Hondas 
Infrastructure is a huge concern. Lots of people criticized Honda for not taking the risk of putting the FCX on the market, but they do not realize how limited we are when it comes to having a fuel station. Even in Southern California, we have maybe 15 fueling stations at most. It's going to be another decade before hydrogen vehicles even make sense.
Infrastructure is a huge concern. Lots of people criticized Honda for not taking the risk of putting the FCX on the market, but they do not realize how limited we are when it comes to having a fuel station. Even in Southern California, we have maybe 15 fueling stations at most. It's going to be another decade before hydrogen vehicles even make sense.
05-12-10, 02:34 PM
#5
in my opinion, hydrogen doesn't make sense for the world of tomorrow. Although, it does make sense for major energy companies that wants to make money off of it's future sales. One day oil will get more and more scarce and they will have to find the new source of energy to sell to us.
05-12-10, 02:42 PM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
That's probably because of the hydrogen-fuelled electric motor. Most electric motors produce their torque at low RPMs.....theoretically, with the max at 0 RPM. This new Toyota will probably be the same.
Well, not only for the FCX, but for this new Toyota, and other fuel-cell vehicles as well, the longer we wait to get started, the fewer potential stations there will be.
How did you get to drive an FCX, BTW?
Were you one of the program-lease customers? Or did you work for one of the organizations that used it on a test-basis?
Infrastructure is a huge concern. Lots of people criticized Honda for not taking the risk of putting the FCX on the market, but they do not realize how limited we are when it comes to having a fuel station. Even in Southern California, we have maybe 15 fueling stations at most. It's going to be another decade before hydrogen vehicles even make sense.
How did you get to drive an FCX, BTW?
Were you one of the program-lease customers? Or did you work for one of the organizations that used it on a test-basis?
05-12-10, 02:55 PM
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Check this out:
http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/...2015-for-50000
http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/...2015-for-50000
Two problems
We tend not to think hydrogen will be the "fuel of the future," for two reasons. First, its "wells-to-wheels" carbon balance is highly suspect, because it takes an enormous amount of energy input to produce pure hydrogen from more complex molecules.
And second, the utter lack of a nationwide hydrogen fueling infrastructure--and the cost and legal challenges of creating one from scratch--have dimmed the prospects of hydrogen as a widespread vehicle fuel. Such a network would likely cost tens of billions of dollars.
DoE: EVs are the way
Electric vehicles, on the other hand, have at least the basic of a widespread "refueling" system in place already: the electric grid.
As EVs move closer to volume production, the U.S. Department of Energy has granted billions of dollars for EV research in its advanced technology vehicle loan program--but substantially cut funding for research into hydrogen vehicles.
We tend not to think hydrogen will be the "fuel of the future," for two reasons. First, its "wells-to-wheels" carbon balance is highly suspect, because it takes an enormous amount of energy input to produce pure hydrogen from more complex molecules.
And second, the utter lack of a nationwide hydrogen fueling infrastructure--and the cost and legal challenges of creating one from scratch--have dimmed the prospects of hydrogen as a widespread vehicle fuel. Such a network would likely cost tens of billions of dollars.
DoE: EVs are the way
Electric vehicles, on the other hand, have at least the basic of a widespread "refueling" system in place already: the electric grid.
As EVs move closer to volume production, the U.S. Department of Energy has granted billions of dollars for EV research in its advanced technology vehicle loan program--but substantially cut funding for research into hydrogen vehicles.
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05-12-10, 06:08 PM
#11
I was associated with a professor at a university and he was able to get Honda to come and let a group of people drive the FCX. The particular university is one of the leader in fuel cell technology, and it's not unusual for Honda, Ford, Toyota to come and do their testing since they have one of the larger hydrogen fueling station around the area. I didn't get to drive it for a long time, but just enough to know what the car feels like. I quite like the FCX! I believe a Honda rep said that in order to build a single FCX, it would cost them $60k or so due to low production. It makes sense as to why Honda doesn't sell the car.
05-12-10, 06:56 PM
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The FCX Clarity is leased and not even 200 have been leased in Cali. It is a study, its not sold.
Toyota is here saying they will sell the vehicle by 2015. Looking at the two companies track records, Toyota will build it, Honda will make excuses.
05-12-10, 07:01 PM
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Honda on the other hand put all they're eggs in the fuel cell basket and they are lagging behind EVERYONE in hybrid and EV technology. As one article I linked stated the future is EVs not fuel cells...
05-12-10, 09:03 PM
#15
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I myself am not convinced that fuel-cell vehicles are the best alternative route to go, but sooner or later we have got to find practical alternative fuels....we can't depend on oil forever.