March 2010 Auto Sales Thread
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
From: California
Entry Luxury Sales
Here's an updated sales trend for the Entry Luxury class of cars. With all the talk on Hyundai, I decided to add in the Genesis this month. The Genesis, at least by price point, slots better here than in the mid-sized luxury group. Too bad Hyundai doesn't breakdown the Genesis sedan and coupe sales.
Looking at the first three months of 2010 vs. the first three months of 2009, Audi and Infiniti are the big winners. The A4, over the first quarter, is up 34.8% and G sales (sedan and coupe) over the quarter are up 28.0%. On the other end of the spectrum, the CTS is fading, down 18.0% over the first quarter. All other entry luxury models increased sales, even the ES and IS had single digit increases of 4.1% and 5.0% despite all the bad publicity.
Code:
3-Series C-Class G ES CTS IS TL A4 MKZ Genesis LaCrosse HS Mar. 9,413 6,006 5,671 3,860 2,870 3,137 3,917 4,733 2,456 2,145 6,094 1,494 Feb. 6,817 4,245 3,956 2,349 2,690 1,991 2,410 2,660 1,751 1,762 4,045 712 Jan. 5,418 4,028 3,763 2,923 2,565 2,203 1,986 2,763 1,340 1,670 4,246 1,247 Dec. 8,963 4,849 5,167 6,531 4,180 4,153 3,167 3,555 2,190 2,354 4,581 1,980 Nov. 6,538 4,022 3,388 4,110 2,705 2,851 2,059 2,532 1,733 1,751 3,400 1,407 Oct. 8,239 4,122 3,889 4,413 2,921 3,162 2,512 3,016 1,661 1,850 3,228 1,527 Sep. 6,523 5,002 4,112 3,046 3,485 3,346 2,034 2,945 1,536 1,665 2,383 1,242 Aug. 9,833 4,253 4,903 5,629 2,584 4,855 3,003 3,823 1,621 2,316 2,816 543 Jul. 7,992 4,450 4,612 4,393 2,382 4,029 3,309 3,098 1,532 2,015 1,468 Jun. 8,347 4,583 4,062 3,918 3,193 3,465 3,018 3,644 2,114 1,838 May 8,621 4,842 3,865 4,125 3,375 2,913 3,375 3,448 2,988 2,079 Apr. 6,013 4,274 2,815 3,549 3,105 2,324 3,105 3,474 1,995 2,076 Total 92,717 54,686 50,203 48,846 36,055 38,429 33,895 39,691 22,917 23,521 32,261 10,152 Mar. 8,464 5,008 3,907 3,225 3,231 2,432 3,231 3,255 2,005 1,626 Feb 09 6,414 3,990 3,045 2,575 3,259 2,147 2,490 2,222 1,145 Jan 09 5,013 3,032 3,509 2,971 3,418 2,400 2,317 2,058 1,561 Dec 08 8,490 6,090 4,982 5,236 4,396 3,539 3,607 3,854 2,089 Nov 08 6,645 4,422 4,457 4,116 2,902 2,749 3,160 3,304 1,805
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 442
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From: California
Mid-sized Luxury Sales Trend
Here's the sales trends for the mid-sized luxury competitors with the Genesis tossed in as usual. The main problem I have with listing Genesis sales with the mid-sized is that the Genesis Coupe doesn't really fit in this segment. The Genesis sedan, because of size, might get cross-shopped, and I believe Hyundai's intent with creating the Genesis sedan was to compete against the mid-sized luxury segment but with entry luxury pricing. E-Class sales now include E-class coupe, where in the past it did not.
The E and 5, as usual, dominate the sales. The new Infiniti M is out but looks like it's still a fight for 3rd place only.
The E and 5, as usual, dominate the sales. The new Infiniti M is out but looks like it's still a fight for 3rd place only.
Code:
E-Class 5-Series Genesis MKS M GS A6 S80 STS RL Mar. 5,042 2,886 2,145 1,443 1,440 645 799 851 400 163 Feb. 4,043 2,270 1,762 1,751 817 488 507 662 332 131 Jan. 3,824 2,469 1,670 1,280 872 529 507 532 233 110 Dec. 5,437 3,914 2,354 1,787 808 1,063 796 751 360 221 Nov. 4,824 3,462 1,751 1,426 416 596 527 581 279 176 Oct. 6,071 3,043 1,850 1,609 536 494 669 541 355 155 Sep. 3,812 2,861 1,665 1,316 447 501 623 502 434 150 Aug. 4,671 3,812 2,316 1,370 618 669 561 565 337 149 Jul. 5,556 2,486 2,015 1,205 726 551 511 602 358 131 Jun. 2,781 2,757 1,838 1,365 682 454 571 1,098 1,220 135 May 2,275 3,904 2,079 1,321 658 516 516 1,088 637 169 Apr. 1,795 4,319 2,076 1,178 441 468 388 681 711 202 Total 50,131 38,183 23,521 17,051 8,461 6,974 6,975 8,454 5,656 1,892 Mar09 1,978 4,040 1,626 1,716 886 625 403 778 575 161 Feb. 2,104 3,191 1,263 1,346 1,107 595 445 671 357 186 Jan. 1,768 2,596 1,056 1,535 1,176 898 776 473 413 208 Dec08 3,464 3,699 1,040 2,100 1,194 1,200 1,218 959 907 245 Nov. 2,264 2,927 1,151 1,958 1,186 721 717 844 630 234 Oct. 2,098 3,958 1,121 2,072 1,193 819 758 424 632 272 Sep. 2,968 2,423 1,029 1,814 1,077 977 1,090 578 856 259 Aug. 2,681 5,287 1,177 2,374 1,221 1,686 1,520 576 975 316
Last edited by RX300-BV; Apr 15, 2010 at 10:45 AM.
Pole Position
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
From: MD
And for the record, I'm a lot less biased about Hyundai/Kia than you are about Toyota/Lexus (most of my posts about Hyundai/Kia just refute the silly claims that some here have repeatedly made).
The Genesis sedan handles very closely to the GS (neither being a true sports sedan like the 5 Series) - hence, my sarcastic remark about the GS being similar to the ES (some things the GS does better, some things the Genesis does better).
If you can't get that through your head by now, then you really need to awake from the Lexus-induced fog.
Here's the sales trends for the mid-sized luxury competitors with the Genesis tossed in as usual. The main problem I have with listing Genesis sales with the mid-sized is that the Genesis Coupe doesn't really fit in this segment. The Genesis sedan, because of size, might get cross-shopped, and I believe Hyundai's intent with creating the Genesis sedan was to compete against the mid-sized luxury segment but with entry luxury pricing. E-Class sales now include E-class coupe, where in the pass it did not.
The E and 5, as usual, dominate the sales. The new Infiniti M is out but looks like it's still a fight for 3rd place only.
The E and 5, as usual, dominate the sales. The new Infiniti M is out but looks like it's still a fight for 3rd place only.
Code:
E-Class 5-Series Genesis MKS M GS A6 S80 STS RL Mar. 5,042 2,886 2,145 1,443 1,440 645 799 851 400 163 Feb. 4,043 2,270 1,762 1,751 817 488 507 662 332 131 Jan. 3,824 2,469 1,670 1,280 872 529 507 532 233 110
But the new M likely will not be the "homerun" that the G is/was for Infiniti - styling that doesn't stand out (got the curves in all the wrong places) and being too hard-edged for most people buying in this segment.
If Infiniti can't get most of its G owners looking for an upgrade to move up to the M, as well as some converts, then the M will likely see the same fall-off in sales down the road as the previous M.
Infiniti had some of the best-looking designs 6-7 yrs ago w/ the G35 (esp. the coupe) and the FX - but lately, their designs have bordered on the strange/weird or boring.
Last edited by YEH; Apr 14, 2010 at 03:43 PM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,695
Likes: 2
From: CA
Here's an updated sales trend for the Entry Luxury class of cars.
Code:
3-Series C-Class G ES CTS IS TL A4 MKZ Genesis LaCrosse HS Mar. 9,413 6,006 5,671 3,860 2,870 3,137 3,917 4,733 2,456 2,145 6,094 1,494 Feb. 6,817 4,245 3,956 2,349 2,690 1,991 2,410 2,660 1,751 1,762 4,045 712 Jan. 5,418 4,028 3,763 2,923 2,565 2,203 1,986 2,763 1,340 1,670 4,246 1,247 Dec. 8,963 4,849 5,167 6,531 4,180 4,153 3,167 3,555 2,190 2,354 4,581 1,980 Nov. 6,538 4,022 3,388 4,110 2,705 2,851 2,059 2,532 1,733 1,751 3,400 1,407 Oct. 8,239 4,122 3,889 4,413 2,921 3,162 2,512 3,016 1,661 1,850 3,228 1,527 Sep. 6,523 5,002 4,112 3,046 3,485 3,346 2,034 2,945 1,536 1,665 2,383 1,242 Aug. 9,833 4,253 4,903 5,629 2,584 4,855 3,003 3,823 1,621 2,316 2,816 543 Jul. 7,992 4,450 4,612 4,393 2,382 4,029 3,309 3,098 1,532 2,015 1,468 Jun. 8,347 4,583 4,062 3,918 3,193 3,465 3,018 3,644 2,114 1,838 May 8,621 4,842 3,865 4,125 3,375 2,913 3,375 3,448 2,988 2,079 Apr. 6,013 4,274 2,815 3,549 3,105 2,324 3,105 3,474 1,995 2,076 Total 92,717 54,686 50,203 48,846 36,055 38,429 33,895 39,691 22,917 23,521 32,261 10,152 Mar. 8,464 5,008 3,907 3,225 3,231 2,432 3,231 3,255 2,005 1,626 Feb 09 6,414 3,990 3,045 2,575 3,259 2,147 2,490 2,222 1,145 Jan 09 5,013 3,032 3,509 2,971 3,418 2,400 2,317 2,058 1,561 Dec 08 8,490 6,090 4,982 5,236 4,396 3,539 3,607 3,854 2,089 Nov 08 6,645 4,422 4,457 4,116 2,902 2,749 3,160 3,304 1,805
The E and 5, as usual, dominate the sales. The new Infiniti M is out but looks like it's still a fight for 3rd place only.
Code:
E-Class 5-Series Genesis MKS M GS A6 S80 STS RL Mar. 5,042 2,886 2,145 1,443 1,440 645 799 851 400 163 Feb. 4,043 2,270 1,762 1,751 817 488 507 662 332 131 Jan. 3,824 2,469 1,670 1,280 872 529 507 532 233 110 Dec. 5,437 3,914 2,354 1,787 808 1,063 796 751 360 221 Nov. 4,824 3,462 1,751 1,426 416 596 527 581 279 176 Oct. 6,071 3,043 1,850 1,609 536 494 669 541 355 155 Sep. 3,812 2,861 1,665 1,316 447 501 623 502 434 150 Aug. 4,671 3,812 2,316 1,370 618 669 561 565 337 149 Jul. 5,556 2,486 2,015 1,205 726 551 511 602 358 131 Jun. 2,781 2,757 1,838 1,365 682 454 571 1,098 1,220 135 May 2,275 3,904 2,079 1,321 658 516 516 1,088 637 169 Apr. 1,795 4,319 2,076 1,178 441 468 388 681 711 202 Total 50,131 38,183 23,521 17,051 8,461 6,974 6,975 8,454 5,656 1,892 Mar09 1,978 4,040 1,626 1,716 886 625 403 778 575 161 Feb. 2,104 3,191 1,263 1,346 1,107 595 445 671 357 186 Jan. 1,768 2,596 1,056 1,535 1,176 898 776 473 413 208 Dec08 3,464 3,699 1,040 2,100 1,194 1,200 1,218 959 907 245 Nov. 2,264 2,927 1,151 1,958 1,186 721 717 844 630 234 Oct. 2,098 3,958 1,121 2,072 1,193 819 758 424 632 272 Sep. 2,968 2,423 1,029 1,814 1,077 977 1,090 578 856 259 Aug. 2,681 5,287 1,177 2,374 1,221 1,686 1,520 576 975 316
And the caveats - combined coupe and sedans, etc, are good to keep in mind.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,439
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From: il
from all my gathered 'intelligences' from various hyundai/genesis/genesis coupe forum, it's safe to say the Genesis Sedans sell more than the Coupe. easily 60/40. maybe even 70/30.
very disappointing because Genesis Coupe is a great car. but obviously nobody is buying the coupe. basically gen coupe is just a very small die hard 'import-fans only' car. and it only attracts people who are under 30. it's very very narrow market. we had a thread about this in Coupe forum.
and now i understand why small coupes like integra, 240sx, prelude and etc died. people don't buy them.
very disappointing because Genesis Coupe is a great car. but obviously nobody is buying the coupe. basically gen coupe is just a very small die hard 'import-fans only' car. and it only attracts people who are under 30. it's very very narrow market. we had a thread about this in Coupe forum.
and now i understand why small coupes like integra, 240sx, prelude and etc died. people don't buy them.
Last edited by joe80; Apr 14, 2010 at 11:17 PM.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: il
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,285
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From: A better place
from all my gathered 'intelligences' from various hyundai/genesis/genesis coupe forum, it's safe to say the Genesis Sedans sell more than the Coupe. easily 60/40. maybe even 70/30.
very disappointing because Genesis Coupe is a great car. but obviously nobody is buying the coupe. basically gen coupe is just a very small die hard 'import-fans only' car. and it only attracts people who are under 30. it's very very narrow market. we had a thread about this in Coupe forum.
and now i understand why small coupes like integra, 240sx, prelude and etc died. people don't buy them.
very disappointing because Genesis Coupe is a great car. but obviously nobody is buying the coupe. basically gen coupe is just a very small die hard 'import-fans only' car. and it only attracts people who are under 30. it's very very narrow market. we had a thread about this in Coupe forum.
and now i understand why small coupes like integra, 240sx, prelude and etc died. people don't buy them.
Almost all models are affected by this. If an automaker does not support or update a model, sales drop, and this is especially true of coupes.
The Mustang and Corvette sell continually well because Ford and GM both spend money and continually update the models.
The Celica, and MR2 used to sell well, but due to a combination of Toyota not updating those models enough, and the price becoming too high sales dropped.
The SC430 when it first came out sold great, but sales dropped off a cliff because Lexus did not update the model much or support it that much.
The key is for an automaker to continue to support those coupe models, even if sales drop. Continual support of the models is important.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,100
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From: tech capital
Sport coupes have been a fickle business for most of the Japanese car makers. Often the sales start strong and quickly fade as the coupe looses its popularity. It's no mystery to me that most manufacturers shy away from this class of car.
Note: American pony car market is not the same as the small sport coupe market of the past.
Note: American pony car market is not the same as the small sport coupe market of the past.
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Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2003
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From: Massachusetts
...
very disappointing because Genesis Coupe is a great car. but obviously nobody is buying the coupe. basically gen coupe is just a very small die hard 'import-fans only' car. and it only attracts people who are under 30. it's very very narrow market. we had a thread about this in Coupe forum.
and now i understand why small coupes like integra, 240sx, prelude and etc died. people don't buy them.
very disappointing because Genesis Coupe is a great car. but obviously nobody is buying the coupe. basically gen coupe is just a very small die hard 'import-fans only' car. and it only attracts people who are under 30. it's very very narrow market. we had a thread about this in Coupe forum.
and now i understand why small coupes like integra, 240sx, prelude and etc died. people don't buy them.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sport coupes have been a fickle business for most of the Japanese car makers. Often the sales start strong and quickly fade as the coupe looses its popularity. It's no mystery to me that most manufacturers shy away from this class of car.
Note: American pony car market is not the same as the small sport coupe market of the past.
Note: American pony car market is not the same as the small sport coupe market of the past.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,439
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From: il
if you are implying any of current line ups are near 'chinese' level, then please show me the evidence. As far as I know, Hyundai does a good job making it their own. and none of Hyundai/Kias are remotely close to blatant rip-offs from Chinese brand.
again, it's 2010. not 2003. and even back then most of hyundai's were nowhere near Chinese like. last gen santa fe was very original. only sonata which borrowed headlight design cues. but other than that they are nowhere near chinese level.
Hyundai makes much better proportioned and well designed cars than many other brands without looking complete knock offs like those Chinese cars. they don't just stop at borrowing cues. they actually make it better and make it their own. Even the new sonata looks nothing like CC, ES, Solara or whatever it is accused of copying when you park it side by side study every part of the car. yes, the coupe like profile isn't original, crease aren't original, but it doesn't mean they are chinese knock off like.
New Optima wheel is VW, but then it is designed by Peter Schreyer who is basically the Audi Man heavily influenced by Audi/VW. it's in his gene. Maybe he designed that wheel 10 years ago? not sure. Forte's front does reminds you of Civic, but side by side? it actually looks closer to WRX more. but than is Civic really that original? no. Even Genesis, which basically borrowed cues from at least 4 other cars do not look like a chinese rip offs.
it's ok to follow the trend. it's ok to follow the design direction. Lexus and many other brands does it all the time. 5 brands now have a big fish like grill. you can see CLS like crease line in at least 5 other cars.
but no, you are completely wrong about hyundai/kia. they borrow cues, but they are on par with many other brands as of today.
accent
elantra
elantra touring
sonata
azera
genesis
genesis coupe
equus
tucson
santa fe
veracruz
they aren't the most original, but they on par with many other brands. they are nowhere near 'chinese level' like you claim. if you think hyundai is near chinese level, then i can name at least 6 other brands that are near Chinese level.
Last edited by joe80; Apr 16, 2010 at 08:02 AM.
Guest
Posts: n/a
^^ No you can't name 6 others and I don't care, you are in a sales thread picking apart peoples posts to argue for Hyundai/Kia and no one really cares at the redundancy about things not even related to sales.
I could bring the cars to your home to compare and you would still disagree thus there is no reason to even post a rebuttal.
I could bring the cars to your home to compare and you would still disagree thus there is no reason to even post a rebuttal.
Its funny how people that defend Huyndai/Kia to the tooth, have no problem accusing Lexus of copying. This is how arguments start. Lets just all be realistic, we've all been down this road 100 times 
Hyundai/Kia are doing great for themselves, but they have a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go to establish themselves where The Big L/M/B are. And their road up there wont be easy, with all the fierce competition from Buick, Audi, Infiniti, Ford - they are all making excellent products these days. Back in the 90ies people that wanted an excellent luxury car without the pricetag of a premium badge pretty much only had Avalon to chose from. Today you've got Avalon, Maxima, Buicks, Fords, Genesis/Azera, and so on. Even the pedestrian cars such as CamCordTima are damn luxury with a few options, and they don't break the bank. You no longer have to pay premium to enjoy a great car - hell I've been driving around my friends loaded Nissan Altima (4 cyl with leather, nav, camera) and in many ways it drives and feels much better than BMW 745.
If Hyundai wants people to buy their premium cars, its not enough to offer excellent cars at excellent value. Genesis, with sedan and coupe, many engine and trim choices cant even keep up with dated Avalon, and theres a very good reason for that.
Hyundai/Kia are doing great for themselves, but they have a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go to establish themselves where The Big L/M/B are. And their road up there wont be easy, with all the fierce competition from Buick, Audi, Infiniti, Ford - they are all making excellent products these days. Back in the 90ies people that wanted an excellent luxury car without the pricetag of a premium badge pretty much only had Avalon to chose from. Today you've got Avalon, Maxima, Buicks, Fords, Genesis/Azera, and so on. Even the pedestrian cars such as CamCordTima are damn luxury with a few options, and they don't break the bank. You no longer have to pay premium to enjoy a great car - hell I've been driving around my friends loaded Nissan Altima (4 cyl with leather, nav, camera) and in many ways it drives and feels much better than BMW 745.
If Hyundai wants people to buy their premium cars, its not enough to offer excellent cars at excellent value. Genesis, with sedan and coupe, many engine and trim choices cant even keep up with dated Avalon, and theres a very good reason for that.
