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What will last longer? A 1989 Toyota Truck or a 1989 Lexus LS400

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Old 03-18-10, 12:39 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by VVT-i View Post
If the truck in question is 1989 4x4, 4 cylinder 22R-E with 5 speed tranny, I'll take the truck all day long. I see them on Autotrader for around $4-$6k with high miles. You can drive it for years and sale it for a little less than you're paid.
dad's old celica had the same engine and 5 speed
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Old 03-18-10, 02:23 AM   #32
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i think it would be a maintenance issue. even if they were drivin hard, but were maintained, either would last.
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Old 03-18-10, 09:49 AM   #33
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Given equal care, in most cases, I'd bet on the LS.

Why? Basically, one big reason. 1980's-vintage Toyota trucks, to get around the 25% import-truck tariff in effect at that time, were shipped over on the boat from Japan with only the cab/frame/drivetain assemblies complete. The beds and tailgates were then welded on at the West Coast Toyota delivery warehouse. They used crappy, defective welds, which tended to rust, from the inside out, no matter how well you washed, cleaned, or took care of the truck. That is why virtually every 80's vintage Toyota truck shows the same rust-lines in the exact same places.....right around the bottom of the bed, where it attaches to the ladder-frame. Eventually the rust not only eats up the bed-attachment, but then attacks the frame itself. Then, the truck gradually becomes structually unsound and more and more unsafe to drive. The problem was not really solved until about 1990, with the lifting of the tariffs, and a new generation of Toyota trucks.
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Old 03-18-10, 10:29 AM   #34
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^ yup, that's why I voted LS

(I remembered last time mmarshall told someone that )
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Old 03-18-10, 11:20 AM   #35
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Frames can be fixed and in a worst case scenario, replaced entirely. Something you can't do on an LS.

Old LS's look much better than the old trucks because trucks are usually abused by people using it as a work truck or beater. LS's generally don't suffer this fate.

Also, a *HUGE* factor no one has mentioned yet in this thread: the aftermarket and junkyard parts availability.

The parts availability for trucks completely annihilates the offerings for an LS. From crate engines, to custom rear ends, suspension, body panels... These types of things are a catalog away from being on your truck. Not so much with the LS. You break one wrong "dealer only" part on the LS, and you might have just written it off.

So if by "last longer" you mean "keep running 100% with reasonable cost", then the truck takes it, no question. They are designed for abuse and easy repair.

Interesting thread.
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Old 03-18-10, 09:12 PM   #36
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Frames can be fixed and in a worst case scenario, replaced entirely. Something you can't do on an LS.
IMO, If you are going to try and repair or replace corroded frame rails on a 20 or 30-year-old Toyota truck, that doesn't make as much sense as replacing the truck itself. You are, in many cases, talking more parts/labor than the truck itself is worth.

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Old LS's look much better than the old trucks because trucks are usually abused by people using it as a work truck or beater. LS's generally don't suffer this fate.
The typical LS is also built, in the factory, to noticeably higher standards than a Toyota truck. There are a number of good pickups (the F-150, arguably, the best), but the LS is truly a world standard in may ways.

Don't mistake what I'm saying here, though. I'm not saying that newer Toyota trucks are built to a poor standard......they most certainly are not, though the latest, post-2006 Tundra, admittedly, has not been impressive. But, unlike the LS, they are not considered a world-class standard.

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Also, a *HUGE* factor no one has mentioned yet in this thread: the aftermarket and junkyard parts availability.

The parts availability for trucks completely annihilates the offerings for an LS. From crate engines, to custom rear ends, suspension, body panels... These types of things are a catalog away from being on your truck. Not so much with the LS. You break one wrong "dealer only" part on the LS, and you might have just written it off.

So if by "last longer" you mean "keep running 100% with reasonable cost", then the truck takes it, no question. They are designed for abuse and easy repair.

Interesting thread.
I'll agree Toyota trucks have far more aftermarket parts, but that's not necessarily the truck itself....that's the custom parts catalog. The way I understand the longevity question in the thread, it concerns the vehicles themselves....not a bunch of customized parts.

Last edited by mmarshall; 03-18-10 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 03-18-10, 09:22 PM   #37
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Truck... I would love to say the Lex but I have to go with old faithful on this one.
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Old 03-18-10, 09:23 PM   #38
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This is what typically happens to 80s-vintage Toyota pickups. The rust starts out as a small brown line around the entire base of the bed, just about even with the top of the rear-wheel wells, then gets progressively worse and expands, until, eventually, this is what you end up with.

Of course, the wetter the climate, the more it snows, and the more road salt is used (or exposure to beach salt air), the faster the rust is going to expand. But the initial rust, from the crappy welds, actually starts from the inside out, regardless of climate or road conditons.

Last edited by mmarshall; 03-18-10 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 03-18-10, 10:09 PM   #39
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If my eyes are not deceiving me...that is a LS400 motor in the engine bay of this Toyota Truck
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Old 03-18-10, 10:23 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
Given equal care, in most cases, I'd bet on the LS.

Why? Basically, one big reason. 1980's-vintage Toyota trucks, to get around the 25% import-truck tariff in effect at that time, were shipped over on the boat from Japan with only the cab/frame/drivetain assemblies complete. The beds and tailgates were then welded on at the West Coast Toyota delivery warehouse. They used crappy, defective welds, which tended to rust, from the inside out, no matter how well you washed, cleaned, or took care of the truck. That is why virtually every 80's vintage Toyota truck shows the same rust-lines in the exact same places.....right around the bottom of the bed, where it attaches to the ladder-frame. Eventually the rust not only eats up the bed-attachment, but then attacks the frame itself. Then, the truck gradually becomes structually unsound and more and more unsafe to drive. The problem was not really solved until about 1990, with the lifting of the tariffs, and a new generation of Toyota trucks.
Solid post Marshall! I am hopeful that one day I can contribute to this forum what you do.
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Old 03-19-10, 12:58 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post


This is what typically happens to 80s-vintage Toyota pickups. The rust starts out as a small brown line around the entire base of the bed, just about even with the top of the rear-wheel wells, then gets progressively worse and expands, until, eventually, this is what you end up with.

Of course, the wetter the climate, the more it snows, and the more road salt is used (or exposure to beach salt air), the faster the rust is going to expand. But the initial rust, from the crappy welds, actually starts from the inside out, regardless of climate or road conditons.
And a typical 80s LS

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Old 03-19-10, 05:53 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by mmarshall View Post
The way I understand the longevity question in the thread, it concerns the vehicles themselves....not a bunch of customized parts.
I suppose it all depends how we define "last longer" in this thread. We haven't concretely nailed down the criteria for this so the votes are highly subjective, depending on how each poster interprets it.

We all make valid points in each of our camps.

As for the pics posted, the rusted out truck is obviously an extreme example of a bad truck, and the LS is an extreme example of a good LS. Contrary to these pics, I see very clean, well-running pick ups on the road and some BEAT up LS's with no more leather left on the seats. The truck in the pic is obviously abused, and possibly even used for a pool cleaning business. The welding rust you describe doesn't explain the rusted out bumpers, and top of the tailgate. This is damage typically seen on pool guy trucks, where they spill corrosive hydrochloric acid on the truck every day for years. No truck, from any make can survive that type of punishment.

Also, as noted before, LS's live a much nicer life than pick up trucks do. So they will naturally age more gracefully. Ever seen a pool guy or contractor drive an LS? If there are any out there, it would be beat up and trashed, just like your typical work truck.

So I think the answer to the OP's question is, "It depends."
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Old 03-19-10, 08:28 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanSC View Post
on how each poster interprets it.

We all make valid points in each of our camps.
True.

Quote:
As for the pics posted, the rusted out truck is obviously an extreme example of a bad truck, and the LS is an extreme example of a good LS. Contrary to these pics, I see very clean, well-running pick ups on the road and some BEAT up LS's with no more leather left on the seats. The truck in the pic is obviously abused, and possibly even used for a pool cleaning business.

The welding rust you describe doesn't explain the rusted out bumpers, and top of the tailgate. This is damage typically seen on pool guy trucks, where they spill corrosive hydrochloric acid on the truck every day for years. No truck, from any make can survive that type of punishment.

Also, as noted before, LS's live a much nicer life than pick up trucks do. So they will naturally age more gracefully. Ever seen a pool guy or contractor drive an LS? If there are any out there, it would be beat up and trashed, just like your typical work truck.

So I think the answer to the OP's question is, "It depends."
The crappy-weld problem leading to premature bed/frame-rust problem on the 80's-vintage trucks is something that was told to me by people that actually worked in body shops and Toyota service facilities.

While I partially agree with you, here's where I disagree: While some trucks, of course were worse than others, depending on use and environment, I have never seen a Toyota truck of that vintage without any rust in that area....it was always the same rust, starting on the exact same lines....no exceptions. The amount and extent, of course, as you suggest, was determined partly by exposure to moisture, salt, and acid....but it was ALWAYS there. The problem was not licked until about 1990 or so, with the relaxation of the import-truck tariffs, different methods of truck importation, and a redesign of the trucks themselves.

Quote:
The welding rust you describe doesn't explain the rusted out bumpers, and top of the tailgate. This is damage typically seen on pool guy trucks, where they spill corrosive hydrochloric acid on the truck every day for years. No truck, from any make can survive that type of punishment.
Road salt on winter roads, tossed up by the rear tires, also plays a big role. It is not just a swimming-pool acid problem.
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Old 03-19-10, 09:07 AM   #44
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I have never seen a Toyota truck of that vintage without any rust in that area....it was always the same rust, starting on the exact same lines....no exceptions.
Haha aww come on, EVERY single one?

I did an Autotrader search within 500 miles of me in Miami and every result (with pics and non-converted commercial beds) came up with a clean bed. So maybe it's the salt they use in your area that's a contributing factor, but down here, our pickups are fine.

And some are pretty darn clean.

1985 Xtra Cab Pickup

Another example...

I wouldn't mind one of these at all! Not bad for 25 years old.
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Old 03-19-10, 09:25 AM   #45
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Haha aww come on, EVERY single one?
In my area (VA/MD/DC) I've yet to see an 80's vintage that, driven regularly, did not develop the exact same rust pattern, in the exact same places...it is just a question of how much, and when it started. Perhaps, in this area, there is a rare rust-free example that was kept in a garage or museum most of the time, but, in my area, I've yet to see one.

In the Desert Southwest, where the climate is warm and arid, you might see more of them, but, in my area, they are extremely hard to find.

The main problem is that the corrosion started from the inside out, with crappy welds, so that, under normal circumstances, there was little you could do to prevent it, even with regular washing, underbody-flushings with a hose, and other cosmetic care.

And, it's a shame, too, because the engine/transmissions on these vehicles were like iron, and, unlike the beds, would last forever. I had a co-worker, who had one, that, after a couple of hundered thousand miles, the drivetrain was still like the day it was built, but the bed and rear frame had tuned into Swiss Cheese, to the point where it had become unsafe to drive.

Last edited by mmarshall; 03-19-10 at 09:31 AM.
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