lol wut

 

They did pretty ok with the last IS. Have you driven the new CT yet? No? That's what I thought.

The current Lexus line, ESPECIALLY the IS, GS and upcoming LFA would like to have a chat with you.

If it's the same 320hp (Doesn't have to be 320, 280 or so would suffice) Turbo 4, that will be in the upcoming Elise, to replace the IS250, then I'd have no issue whatsoever with that.

350hp from the 2GR in the 350 please?

 

My guess is the 350 will have the same engine as the new GS350 will, and will be more powerful. If the GS350 is going to be better, it'll make close to 350HP, so why not the IS350 do the same?

 

I need to see more.

 

I'm concerned too, but not going to sweat it too much. The HS and CT were all new designs from a blank sheet of paper. There's more risk with inventing something new, whereas the 3IS will build upon the first and second generation. I would expect them to stick close to what's made the current and past IS popular.

 

No, but these guys have:

‎...and they all say it is pretty abysmal to drive. Mind you, mags that loved the LFA and loved the ISF.

The HS, CT, RX, and IS, GS facelifts would like to have a chat with you, lol.

 

most of those also hated how new 5 series drives... must be terrible car, right, right?!

 

BACK TO TOPIC:


I hope the 3rd gen IS upgrades their engine offerings immediately during release.

If they stick with the 250/350 for the first year, it may lose momentum and credential (remember what happened to the 3GS?). But if they offer something that is more powerful and fuel efficient, it will attract attention.

And I can understand if they release sedan and "sportcross" only first for 2012. Let the coupe/convertible come a year after (2013). Let the hybrid and F-Sport versions come in 2014.


BMW has the recipe right. Bring out the bread-and-butter, but keep offering better choices year after year. Crazy upgrades year after year like an iPhone...

 

I think somehow the 3.0 is going to be used this time to produce 230 hp ish and the 3.5 liter will be made more powerful to 320- 330 ish.

Both sedans should come out immediately, with awd models coming shortly. F variant should come 1 year later, and also with it the coupe and convert. skip the sport cross. lol

im sorry, i believe the RX is the only thing saving Lexus at the moment with a constant stream of 7K+ sales every month. so the general public must not think its ugly.

 

Regarding styling, these arguments really puzzle me. Yes styling is subjective, and what is "good" styling is highly arguable. However there is a difference between "good" styling and popular or well-liked styling.

Both the Toyota and Lexus brands sell well overall. Some of you can argue that the styling is not "good" all day long. The fact is though, Toyota and Lexus styling is popular, and that means it is well-liked. Period. End of discussion. The arguments in this situation need to stop.

Toyota and Lexus styling not appealing to a few of you enthusiasts here is quite irrelevant since the market shows that lots consumers like Toyota and Lexus styling.

 

I would argue that people don't buy Toyota/Lexus products because they look good, but merely because they are reliable products. No one buys Toyota products because of the design. I wouldn't call their designs POPULAR or GOOD, I would merely call them UNOFFENSIVE, or, not ugly enough to turn people away. Good enough for appliances. Completely different than "popular." Again, like I tried to explain in the Car and Driver thread, good, or popular, design does not equate good sales, and good sales does not equate to good/popular design.

The consensus was the 5 series doesn't drive as well as the last one; doesn't mean it's a terrible car to drive, just not as good. That said, I don't think the new 5er has won a single comparo test since it debuted so, while it's not terrible, it's not exactly great either.

In addition, the flak the new 5er gets about its dynamics is nowhere nearly as bad as the flak the new CT is getting. Never has the 5er been called "so disappointing," "dull," "a bit of a mess." Therefore, your argument is incomplete and invalid.

 

Which makes me sad. I love wagons; and that one was a beautiful, albeit underpowered, auto only(?), variant. It challenges my love of the V70R.

IS350 Estate? YES PLEASE.
IS-F Estate?

 

That is a very sweeping generalization you made there . Have any proof or solid evidence that people don't buy Toyotas for the styling? Toyota and Lexus have both done quite well on consumer design surveys.

My point still stands; there is a DIFFERENCE between "good" which arguable, and popular which is NOT arguable. Popular is popular, period. Sales figures don't lie in terms of what is popular. If a vehicle has "bland" or inoffensive styling that appeals to a WIDE range of consumers, then the styling is popular. The very definition of popular is for something to be well-liked by a large number of people.

You obviously have your own biases and opinions, but that does not make them fact. You make it sound as if people buy Toyotas in spite of mediocre styling. You imply that a huge number of people forgive or forget about Toyota and Lexus styling and buy the vehicles for any other reasons except styling. That is frankly ridiculous.

UK and some Euro mags hating on Lexus, nothing new here. Euro and UK mags are heavily biased against Lexus *AND* against hybrids. Their minds are also boggled by any Lexus with a bit of sport in it. Here we have a Lexus hybrid that also has some sport in it. It's not surprising they hate the CT.

Some Euro and UK mags hated and criticized the ISF as well.

To overcome the ridiculous Lexus and Toyota bias, an exceptionally and unquestionably sporty car such as the LFA is needed. Any Lexus that's not unquestionably sporty, then some Euro and UK mags will find something to hate. Even then, they find new ways of hating like saying a super-sporty Lexus makes no sense or is pointless.

I'll wait for full reviews from neutral and reputable sources with regards to the CT.

 

There are many reasons why I buy toyota/lexus and reliability is not one of them

 

The number one reason I picked the LS over the S class is because I don't like the S class's design inside and out, not reliability. and I think the IS is still a better looking car overall than the new C class. So I don't think Lexus was picked over others just because of reliability at all ...