spwolf

and there you go boys and girls.... 17th ranked by the number of NTHSA complaints.

How many freaking manufacturers are there??????

Does anyone need any further proof?
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...EHeadlinesAsia

encore888

Very good point, and again shows how this 'crisis' is overblown and exaggerated out of proportion.

spwolf

pretty silly that you have these manufacturers offering discounts to lure toyota buyers into their problem-free cars, and then real stats tell us otherwise...

I wonder if there is anyone with less NTHSA complaints? I mean 17th is very low, how many brands are there in the USA? They already indentified all major competitors with more - Chrysler, Hyundai, Honda, Ford and GM are all listed with more NTHSA complaints than Toyota.

TRDFantasy

So since 2001 up until now, Toyota has had less NHTSA complaints per marketshare than Honda, Subaru or Hyundai? So much for Toyota's so-called big quality drop, and Hyundai's supposed amazing quality .

This thread should be a sticky, as this is concrete evidence showing that a witch hunt is going on against Toyota.

tromly

How the big three American auto manufacturers have the gall to try and lure a Toyota owner to a UAW built piece of junk baffles me ? To chase junk for a $1000 rebate is foolish !!

tofu_house

iTrader: (2)

While I agree that Toyota's recent big-quality drop is highly exaggerated, your Hyundai comment is incorrect.

From 2001 to now, Hyundai has GROWN tremendously in quality. Enough so, to compare it to Toyota, Honda, and Nissan. Toyota's quality which was near bullet-proof 9 years ago can hardly be said to be at the same level that it used to be (that's not saying that the quality is poor, but one can argue quality has dropped slightly).

At the same time, one can also argue for Hyundai's growth (which of course still has a ways to go in all departments).

TRDFantasy

This data looks at NHTSA complaints from 2001 up until February 3 of this year.

Hyundai sold very small numbers of vehicles in the US before 2004-2005, when their quality improvements started to be noticed.

Again, this looks at number of complaints per marketshare, so even though Hyundai quality has improved, it's still not superior to Toyota quality like some people claim.

Likewise, Toyota quality has NOT dropped that dramatically as others claim.

This is concrete proof of that.

Based on this data, Hyundai cannot yet be compared with Honda and Toyota. Based on complaints per marketshare, Hyundai is comparable with Nissan right now.

Keep in mind last year for example Toyota and some of the big automakers experienced sales declines here in the US, while Hyundai experienced a big sales increase for 2009. In 2008 as well, Toyota along with a number of major automakers had some big annual sales declines in the US. Toyota's marketshare has decreased over the past 2 years relative to some of the competition, like Ford which has seen increased marketshare.

If Toyota quality really was that bad, then this would be reflected in supposedly increased number of complaints over the past 2 years relative to Toyota's reduced marketshare.

The media is reporting on silly stories such as 80 complaints about the Corolla's steering, meanwhile there are hundreds and in some cases thousands of complaints about numerous vehicles from the competition that the media is not reporting on.

I agree with you that it can only be argued Toyota's quality has dropped slightly. There has been no major drop in Toyota quality. All of the statistics and objective concrete evidence out there proves it.

I also agree that Hyundai quality does have a ways to go in many aspects, contrary to the misguided belief and propaganda that some believe in that Hyundai quality right now is comparable to Toyota or Honda in every aspect.

tofu_house

iTrader: (2)

I think we're pretty much on the same page.

And while I agree with you in saying that Hyundai's quality is not yet to that of Toyota, the growth of their quality is tremendous and will likely be on par with that of Toyota in the near future.

Though there are a lot of improvements still needed in many Hyundai departments (design, quality, customer service), no one can deny a noticeable increase in all aspects. Granted, there is still a ways to go for Hyundai has an automative company.

spwolf

I have to stress out again - these are complaints until Feb 3... thats 3 months after original recall for unintended acceleration. Tons of those reports on Toyota have been submitted after that recall. And it still was 4th best brand. While EVERY other major brand was behind.

If that is not telling, i dont know what is.

UDel

Quality and reliability are two different things or can be separate. Most customer complaints on a data survey would be with reliability or things not working right, breaking, and failing where I would say Toyota is still pretty high up there and has not taken significant drops aside from just a few exceptions like all the issues with the Tundra and some things with the Camry. Most people on here notice and complain about quality of materials, fit and finish, pieces feeling flimsy, squeaks, cars not feeling as solid as they used to on newer Toyota's and Lexus vehicles which most likely won't show up on this data survey. I would say most on here agree modern Toyota vehicles simply don't feel as solid and well built as they used to especially in the interior material and fit and finish area. The car may still be pretty reliable even though the materials, fit and finish, have gone downhill. I doubt there is a box on this Customer Complaint survey for the interior just does not feel as solid and well built as previous Toyota's.

In the end I think all these recalls and bad PR could be good for Toyota as far as quality is concerned because Toyota previously focusing mainly on being number 1 in sales and being the biggest car company in the world is not going to be their biggest concern anymore and they are going to have to go back to basics and focus more on quality, reliability, and making sure each vehicle feels and is better then the vehicle it replaces like they did in the past to get their reputation back to where they want it even if it means less cars being built or being built at a slower rate. The consumer will hopefully win from this in the future.

bnizzle87

the recall has put a damper on toyota's reputation, but not to the point where its unreliable, as many of my colleagues have stated. there are many car companies who are highly prone to have automotive-related failures. no one is perfect, but toyota over the years has provided much more than excellence in its field. this can be seen as a blessing in disguise. in my honest opinion, car makers are battling over who makes the best this, with achieving such and such gas mileage, but some subconsciously place those merits over customer satisfaction. toyota may not be the fastest or the flashiest, but they get people where they wanna go without problems. the data from the NHTSA is a great figure to see what car makers are really going after. market share is one thing, but to have as few customer complaints as toyota has been getting (despite the recall) only shows that they care about its customers. and thats something all companies should strive toward to become successful.

i agree with UDel. cars should be manufactured with the utmost precaution. who cares about how many are on the lot at any given time if those cars are defective or could cause a problem to the driver and his/her passengers. at least cars will be as close to fail-proof as possible, and thats what all drivers want in the end. the consumer should be able to purchase a car and know that there isnt a problem with it soon after. a slower production rate and the quality care management should outweigh profit margin or being top dog in terms of sales. sometimes we get too advanced for what we really need to focus on, and going back to the basics is a good way to go, not just for toyota but for all manufacturers. good point UDel!

Stormwind

Maybe their customers that had problems are either too injured or dead to be able to go on edmonds.com to file complains.

LexFather

Shows people REALLY don't care to know the facts. The other thread had like 8 replies showing Toyota still is top notch.

The poo slinging thread is what a dozen or more pages about speculation and media ignorance.

Sad.

spwolf

its NHTSA data ;-).

In fact, recent AP article suggested that there was big influx of NHTSA complaints once recall was announced, attributed to lawyers staking their claims, and those were counted in here as well.

TRDFantasy

Or maybe despite all the recent problems, Toyota quality still remains very good, and the media and the govt have simply gone on a witch hunt against Toyota .