Please watch this video of my 4runner starting up and tell me if it's normal
12-21-09, 01:27 PM
#1
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Please watch this video of my 4runner starting up and tell me if it's normal
Our 4runner has had a weak/hesitant startup under certain conditions ever since it was almost brand new. Our dealer has always told us it's normal and yet I've never ever seen another 4runner do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdcPhgxymrU
I've just put up with it for the 5 years we've had the 4runner because it has always been under warranty and I figured I'd just wait for something to outright fail and then fix it... but so far nothing has failed, it just has a start up that takes between 2.5 and 5 seconds (in this video it takes about 3.5 seconds to fully catch)... not always but much more likely to occur under particular conditions... cooler to cold weather and having been driven between 1 and 6 hours ago. If I just shut it off 15 minutes ago or let it sit for 12 hours it'll usually startup fine. If it's 80 degrees out it'll usually start fine.
As far as trouble shooting
I've already tried replacing the battery.
Also putting it into the pre-start position where the fuel pump engages, waited for 5-6 seconds, and then started it. This doesn't seem to help.
At this point I just want to know if I'm in the right frame of mind to walk into the dealership and demand the service manager stop telling me it's normal unless he can show me another 4runner on his lot that does the same thing?
My main concern is I've only got a year or so of warranty left (I bought an extended Toyota platinum warranty) and this issue still persists. I'm afraid one of three things could happen:
-Whatever's causing the weak starts gets worse and the car won't start at all
-The weak start itself has been causing excessive wear on the starting system or other related components which fail early at my expense
-Something else in the car starts degrading such as maybe a slightly weak battery or gummed up fuel injectors. Under normal conditions I'd notice something wasn't right and eventually get it fixed. But I'm afraid that combined with this weak startup problem the result will be that anything else making the car not quite run or start up correctly will compound with the existing issue and make the car not start at all, leaving my wife stranded.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdcPhgxymrU
I've just put up with it for the 5 years we've had the 4runner because it has always been under warranty and I figured I'd just wait for something to outright fail and then fix it... but so far nothing has failed, it just has a start up that takes between 2.5 and 5 seconds (in this video it takes about 3.5 seconds to fully catch)... not always but much more likely to occur under particular conditions... cooler to cold weather and having been driven between 1 and 6 hours ago. If I just shut it off 15 minutes ago or let it sit for 12 hours it'll usually startup fine. If it's 80 degrees out it'll usually start fine.
As far as trouble shooting
I've already tried replacing the battery.
Also putting it into the pre-start position where the fuel pump engages, waited for 5-6 seconds, and then started it. This doesn't seem to help.
At this point I just want to know if I'm in the right frame of mind to walk into the dealership and demand the service manager stop telling me it's normal unless he can show me another 4runner on his lot that does the same thing?
My main concern is I've only got a year or so of warranty left (I bought an extended Toyota platinum warranty) and this issue still persists. I'm afraid one of three things could happen:
-Whatever's causing the weak starts gets worse and the car won't start at all
-The weak start itself has been causing excessive wear on the starting system or other related components which fail early at my expense
-Something else in the car starts degrading such as maybe a slightly weak battery or gummed up fuel injectors. Under normal conditions I'd notice something wasn't right and eventually get it fixed. But I'm afraid that combined with this weak startup problem the result will be that anything else making the car not quite run or start up correctly will compound with the existing issue and make the car not start at all, leaving my wife stranded.
12-21-09, 02:43 PM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
maybe bad starter coil or alternator?
12-21-09, 02:44 PM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
do you put your foot on the gas while starting it? if so, don't.
12-21-09, 02:46 PM
#5
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Thanks for the replies so far.
No... definitely not. The 4runner has an auto-start feature where you just barely crank it, let go, and let it do the rest of the cranking as it sees necessary. In the video that's the feature I'm using, however it doesn't matter if I crank it or if the system auto-cranks, it takes that long regardless.
No... definitely not. The 4runner has an auto-start feature where you just barely crank it, let go, and let it do the rest of the cranking as it sees necessary. In the video that's the feature I'm using, however it doesn't matter if I crank it or if the system auto-cranks, it takes that long regardless.
12-21-09, 03:03 PM
#6
Definitely not a battery, alternator, or starter.
It really sounds like a ignition or fuel issue to me. More likely fuel. Your fuel pressure regular, which is in the take nowadays, may have gone bad causing no fuel pressure in your lines after the engine shuts off. If so, that explains why it cranks so much as the fuel system is building pressure during that 3.5 seconds of cranking. Ask the dealership to place a fuel pressure gauge on it and let it sit. You should not lose all pressure. There should be a spec in the service manual.
Good luck.
It really sounds like a ignition or fuel issue to me. More likely fuel. Your fuel pressure regular, which is in the take nowadays, may have gone bad causing no fuel pressure in your lines after the engine shuts off. If so, that explains why it cranks so much as the fuel system is building pressure during that 3.5 seconds of cranking. Ask the dealership to place a fuel pressure gauge on it and let it sit. You should not lose all pressure. There should be a spec in the service manual.
Good luck.
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12-21-09, 06:14 PM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
Correct. Those days went out with carburators and fast-idle cams.
The fact that your 4Runner's starting problems seem to be temperature-sensitive makes me suspect either the coolant-temperature sensor or a weak fuel-pump first. When the temperature drops, the sensor is supposed to send a signal to the engine's computer to enrich the air-fuel mixture (more gas, less air) for a cold start.....and then gradually lean it out as coolant temperature increases (an engine is considered warm at a coolant temperature of 140 degrees....about the bottom tick-mark of the normal section on the temperature gauge). Normally, though, when an ignition or air/fuel-related sensor like that goes out, it triggers an CHECK ENGINE light.....which I didn't see lit up in the video (or the bulb could just be bad). Still, since, at 80 degrees, you don't have any problem, I'd check those two things first.....a weak fuel pump could be OK at warm temperatures but not able to supply enough fuel when it's colder.
If it's not those two, the MAF (mass-air-flow sensor) could also be a factor...that also affects air-fuel mixture, as does the oxygen sensor (usually a spark-plug-like device on the exhaust manifold).
Last, do you use cheap, second-grade gasoline? El Cheapo gas at cut-rate stations can cause starting/running problems, even if it is the correct required octane for your engine. Cheap-grade gas often does not have good detergent and other additive packages to keep carbon and gunk from building up in the fuel system. If the fuel injectors get plugged, it will cause too-lean air-fuel mixtures that will give some of the symptoms you describe on cold-starts.
So, if you are using cut-rate gas, try a good brand like Chevron of Shell and see if the good detergent packages in those fuels don't help.
And good luck.
The fact that your 4Runner's starting problems seem to be temperature-sensitive makes me suspect either the coolant-temperature sensor or a weak fuel-pump first. When the temperature drops, the sensor is supposed to send a signal to the engine's computer to enrich the air-fuel mixture (more gas, less air) for a cold start.....and then gradually lean it out as coolant temperature increases (an engine is considered warm at a coolant temperature of 140 degrees....about the bottom tick-mark of the normal section on the temperature gauge). Normally, though, when an ignition or air/fuel-related sensor like that goes out, it triggers an CHECK ENGINE light.....which I didn't see lit up in the video (or the bulb could just be bad). Still, since, at 80 degrees, you don't have any problem, I'd check those two things first.....a weak fuel pump could be OK at warm temperatures but not able to supply enough fuel when it's colder.
If it's not those two, the MAF (mass-air-flow sensor) could also be a factor...that also affects air-fuel mixture, as does the oxygen sensor (usually a spark-plug-like device on the exhaust manifold).
Last, do you use cheap, second-grade gasoline? El Cheapo gas at cut-rate stations can cause starting/running problems, even if it is the correct required octane for your engine. Cheap-grade gas often does not have good detergent and other additive packages to keep carbon and gunk from building up in the fuel system. If the fuel injectors get plugged, it will cause too-lean air-fuel mixtures that will give some of the symptoms you describe on cold-starts.
So, if you are using cut-rate gas, try a good brand like Chevron of Shell and see if the good detergent packages in those fuels don't help.
And good luck.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-22-09 at 08:47 AM.
12-22-09, 09:41 AM
#12
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My 4runner sounds the same but starts up within half the time of yours.
Do you know 4runner has auto start function? You can just crank the eye all the way to start for a second and let go. You don't have to hold the ignition key at start until the motor fires up.
Do you know 4runner has auto start function? You can just crank the eye all the way to start for a second and let go. You don't have to hold the ignition key at start until the motor fires up.
12-22-09, 10:39 AM
#13
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the help and troubleshooting tips guys. For now I'm hesitant to dig too deep into it since it's still under warranty.
I'm thinking I need to just go to the dealer and demand they fix the issue even if it his very hard to troubleshoot... either that or give me a lifetime powertrain warranty.
That video was actually taken with me using the auto start feature which is what I use 98% of the time. I have tested to see if not using it helps anything, but it doesn't.
I'm thinking I need to just go to the dealer and demand they fix the issue even if it his very hard to troubleshoot... either that or give me a lifetime powertrain warranty.
That video was actually taken with me using the auto start feature which is what I use 98% of the time. I have tested to see if not using it helps anything, but it doesn't.
12-22-09, 11:14 AM
#14
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Reminds me of my 03 V8 4Runner, usually took just as long to start especially in cooler/colder temps, had the original battery in it for 60k, at times it did worry me on drives from NY to ATL or ATL to NY.
During the summer months it was fine, I never understood but it was like that since new so I never questioned it.
Whats funny was my 06 Maxima started having long starts and I literally thought nothing of it and then one day my battery died in the parking lot of shop rite lol
I understand your pain Threxx, especially since your wife drives it, not to get off topic but my 03 had the complete Nav/Headunit replaced, had a frozen caliper, headlight housing was replaced, passenger side interior door panel was replaced, the paint was coming off the door handle, oddly all others where fine, it developed a problem with the alarm, sometimes it would chirp other times it would not, toyota could not figure it out, so we dealt with it.
Oddly enough the 800 dollar extended bumper to bumper warranty I picked up covered everything, it was traded but I don't know if I would own the 4Runner without an extended warranty, every repair was a 1000 dollars, I did not pay but still even the headlight housing was 500 and change.
During the summer months it was fine, I never understood but it was like that since new so I never questioned it.
Whats funny was my 06 Maxima started having long starts and I literally thought nothing of it and then one day my battery died in the parking lot of shop rite lol
I understand your pain Threxx, especially since your wife drives it, not to get off topic but my 03 had the complete Nav/Headunit replaced, had a frozen caliper, headlight housing was replaced, passenger side interior door panel was replaced, the paint was coming off the door handle, oddly all others where fine, it developed a problem with the alarm, sometimes it would chirp other times it would not, toyota could not figure it out, so we dealt with it.
Oddly enough the 800 dollar extended bumper to bumper warranty I picked up covered everything, it was traded but I don't know if I would own the 4Runner without an extended warranty, every repair was a 1000 dollars, I did not pay but still even the headlight housing was 500 and change.
