Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

New Toyota Hybrid Preview

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 12-15-09, 01:48 PM
  #16  
bitkahuna
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
 
bitkahuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Present
Posts: 75,169
Received 2,494 Likes on 1,639 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SLegacy99
I believe that Toyota needs to invest in a small motor for their hybrids (say 1.6 to 2.0L) and pull out all of the stops. Utilize dual valve timing and direct injection. ... Offer turbo powered ones for HS, Rav 4, and Camry.
a turbo hybrid? is there such a beast in existence? you do know that's pretty costly right, not to mention a nightmare of engine management software.
bitkahuna is offline  
Old 12-15-09, 01:57 PM
  #17  
Nextourer
Lexus Champion
 
Nextourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: none
Posts: 4,192
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SLegacy99
I wouldn't call the 1.8L class leading, which is why I think that a suitable replacement is in order. I didn't say that they should use turbos in hybrids. However, you assert that the electric motor can be compared to a turbo (which is accurate) however current battery technology greatly limits the practical amount of power from a hybrid vs. a turbo. I've never heard of the atkinson cycle eliminating the need for DI or valvematic and I'm no novice when it comes to cars. Where you got the idea from is beyond me, but perhaps you should write to Lexus and BMW and tell them that they are doing it wrong.
But the 1.8 litre is the latest engine after the GR and NR family last year. (Now superseded by the AR engine family).
Nextourer is offline  
Old 12-15-09, 02:58 PM
  #18  
(Cj)
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
 
(Cj)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bad co
its called a prius!
The Insight is compact and the Prius is midsized
(Cj) is offline  
Old 12-15-09, 02:59 PM
  #19  
(Cj)
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
 
(Cj)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: somewhere out there
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bitkahuna
a turbo hybrid? is there such a beast in existence? you do know that's pretty costly right, not to mention a nightmare of engine management software.
I think the Volt has a turbocharged gas engine to supplement the electric motor? I could be wrong though?
(Cj) is offline  
Old 12-15-09, 03:10 PM
  #20  
spwolf
Lexus Champion
 
spwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,926
Received 161 Likes on 119 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by (Cj)
I think the Volt has a turbocharged gas engine to supplement the electric motor? I could be wrong though?
they canned the idea because it was not worth it... ;-)
spwolf is offline  
Old 12-15-09, 03:24 PM
  #21  
spwolf
Lexus Champion
 
spwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,926
Received 161 Likes on 119 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SLegacy99
I wouldn't call the 1.8L class leading, which is why I think that a suitable replacement is in order. I didn't say that they should use turbos in hybrids. However, you assert that the electric motor can be compared to a turbo (which is accurate) however current battery technology greatly limits the practical amount of power from a hybrid vs. a turbo. I've never heard of the atkinson cycle eliminating the need for DI or valvematic and I'm no novice when it comes to cars. Where you got the idea from is beyond me, but perhaps you should write to Lexus and BMW and tell them that they are doing it wrong.
- you realize you are talking about brand new ZR engine series, which is indeed class leading and , again, brand new? Maybe you thought it was based on NZ series engine in old Prius? Completly different engine series and engine. How did you think that new Prius got those numbers, by accident? They optimized everything in order to get them, same goes for RX.
- Where did I hear that atkinson cycle engine in Prius is optimized to run at predefined RPMs while Valvematic and Direct Injection are used to optimize fuel delivery throughout the rpm range? Not actually big secret. Lexus is not running their Atkinson cycle engines with Valvematic or Direct Injection, and BMW does not have any Aktinson cycle engines.

- Gen3 Prius gets 45hp max out of the electric motors. You would fit an turbo in there to get 300 hp Prius? That idea is definetly beyond me ;-).

I definetly do not mean anything bad (let me repeat that once again!) but it seems to me that you go after the catchphrases and stick to them. You have to realize that those bumper stickers matter not. Look at the vehicle numbers - both Prius and RX450h are best powertrains in the world in their range. Forget about technologies they use. Look at the numbers.
spwolf is offline  
Old 12-15-09, 04:33 PM
  #22  
Mister Two
Lead Lap
 
Mister Two's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bitkahuna
a turbo hybrid? is there such a beast in existence? you do know that's pretty costly right, not to mention a nightmare of engine management software.
This beast currently exists in the form of the BMW X6 ActiveHybrid, although the Subaru TPH is the real first if concept cars are considered.
Mister Two is offline  
Old 12-15-09, 04:49 PM
  #23  
spwolf
Lexus Champion
 
spwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,926
Received 161 Likes on 119 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Mister Two
This beast currently exists in the form of the BMW X6 ActiveHybrid, although the Subaru TPH is the real first if concept cars are considered.
not really, ActiveHybrid is just an mild-hybrid, or should i say glorified start stop system.

germans and french have been trying to do turbodiesel hybrid for quite a while now, that even makes sense, but there is no product out yet - and they had been at it for quite a while. I am pretty sure we will never see full hybrid system with turboed petrol engine.
spwolf is offline  
Old 12-15-09, 04:54 PM
  #24  
Mister Two
Lead Lap
 
Mister Two's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by spwolf
not really, ActiveHybrid is just an mild-hybrid, or should i say glorified start stop system.
You're talking about the ActiveHybrid 7, which is a mild hybrid. The X6 ActiveHybrid, even though it shares the same moniker, is a full hybrid.

Confusing, I know.
Mister Two is offline  
Old 12-15-09, 05:34 PM
  #25  
spwolf
Lexus Champion
 
spwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,926
Received 161 Likes on 119 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Mister Two
You're talking about the ActiveHybrid 7, which is a mild hybrid. The X6 ActiveHybrid, even though it shares the same moniker, is a full hybrid.

Confusing, I know.
yep, you are right, i even know about X6 ActiveHybrid... they make great deal of pointing how electric motors give it gas free help through the entire range.

Nevertheless, X6 AH is different beast, it is all out effort thats proving all the wrong things.
spwolf is offline  
Old 12-15-09, 05:48 PM
  #26  
bad co
Lexus Champion
 
bad co's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Park Ridge IL
Posts: 2,485
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by (Cj)
The Insight is compact and the Prius is midsized
So does that make the camry fullsize ?
bad co is offline  
Old 12-15-09, 10:09 PM
  #27  
PhilipMSPT
Cycle Savant
iTrader: (5)
 
PhilipMSPT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In rehab...
Posts: 21,527
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by bad co
So does that make the camry fullsize ?
Nope.

Both have similar interior volumetric capacities. That's how cars are measured as compact, midsized, and full sized.

But since the Camry is a sedan and the Prius is a hatchback/wagon, the physical exterior dimensions are significantly different.
PhilipMSPT is offline  
Old 12-16-09, 05:59 AM
  #28  
SLegacy99
Lead Lap
 
SLegacy99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: MD
Posts: 4,511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by spwolf
- you realize you are talking about brand new ZR engine series, which is indeed class leading and , again, brand new?
I'm sorry, I don't think that the 2ZR is class leading. Other companies have larger, more potent engines that are more efficient.
SLegacy99 is offline  
Old 12-16-09, 06:14 AM
  #29  
huddleston
Racer
iTrader: (3)
 
huddleston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: AR
Posts: 1,801
Likes: 0
Received 56 Likes on 13 Posts
Default

i would buy an iQ for my commute. i hope this continues
huddleston is offline  
Old 12-16-09, 07:11 AM
  #30  
spwolf
Lexus Champion
 
spwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,926
Received 161 Likes on 119 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SLegacy99
I'm sorry, I don't think that the 2ZR is class leading. Other companies have larger, more potent engines that are more efficient.
really? I dont see anything as good as 2ZR Valvematic or 1ZR Valvematic engines in Europe. Show me example please. 147hp out of 2ZR and 132hp out of 1ZR is class leading, nothing touches it at all. In Autobild tests, 1ZR Dual VVTI was as fast as 1.4TFSI in Golf, but spent less fuel. This is before Valvematic treatment which gave it 8hp more and ~10% lower consumption. Of course Auris is also 2,000 Euros cheaper with that engine.

and then again, nothing touches 2ZR in Prius either... i would like to see these examples?

Or are you talking about bumper stickers again? You want it turboed with direct injection and valvematic?
spwolf is offline  


Quick Reply: New Toyota Hybrid Preview



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:53 AM.