(Cj)

I agree that the LS would be very nice with the 1GZ V12 . That would be the perfect engine for a proverbial LS-F. Now, I think that a supercharged GS-F would be perfect. As others have said, the LFA engine is probably not gonna make it to the GS due to cost and it's overall specialization for the task of a supercar. The Toyota Mark X Supercharged got 316hp and 304 ft lbs (at 3200rpm!) of torque from the 3.0L 3GR-FSE engine with a supercharger added. Now imagine if they added a supercharger to the IS-F's engine

The current IS-F engine should be the standard engine for the V8 GS in order for it to compare favorably to the competition, and I would like the next generation IS350 to get a revised version of the supercharged 3GR-FSE engine

(Cj)

By the way, I'd be VERY surprised if the GS-F was delayed or cancelled. Akio Toyoda is VERY serious about adding performance and excitement to the lineup, so if it's up to him the GS-F is probably still a go!

tmf2004

iTrader: (15)

Your probably right that the IS-F engine is the plateforn for future "F" model cars.. A few tweaks and maybe forced induction will bring the GS-F HP up to bragging rights..

spwolf

that might be true, but that does not change the fact that sucess of 4 gen GS has nothing to do with GS-F... Lexus has been #1 luxury brand in the USA way before IS-F was hinted, let alone sold.

(Cj)

Lexus's success in the US has mainly come from the low end, and recently with the IS-F and LSh they've been trying to move that success upmarket. In order for them to follow through with what they started they "need" a GS-F. Of course a GS-F isn't essential to their survival (I don't think anyone here was suggesting that), but for Lexus to go to the next level of prestige globally more high performance products and product variants need to come.

I imagine a 3 tier strategy for Lexuses product line. Soft basic yet luxurious base models, uplevel hybrid models, and then high performance F models. The GS could potentially be the model to show off this 3 tiered approach.

(Cj)

Yeah, and it makes sense to me that they would do that because both applications of the IS-F's engine (IS-F and LSh) are very low volume. So the more they can use it and the farther they can spread it the more the cost of development will be recouped.

The next generation GS and LS V8's can be that engine with maybe just some slight readjustments for more torque production, and the GS-F can be a supercharged variant of that engine. I would imagine with the right engineers they could get 500hp and 500ftlbs of tq from supercharging that engine.

kyang91

iTrader: (5)

Man......the GSF will be nice.......

Faraaz23

Not meaning to be nit-picky, but in 1998 the GS400 was the fastest automatic naturally aspirated sedan. The fastest automatic sedan regardless of aspiration was the 1998 Jaguar XJR. Just thought I had to give props where due

But back on the subject, I have to say a couple people have outstanding points. Look at the size of 3 series vs 5 series. C class vs E class. IS vs GS. It would be quite obvious why so many people would go for the larger vehicle in every line up. However, I failed to leave out what Lexus actually offers. Its IS vs ES vs GS. I think there are quite a few potential GS buyers who save a couple thousand and go for the ES instead. With the germans, its either/or. With Lexus, its either/or/or. I know for many of us, there are certain aspects of the GS we wish improved, but IT IS NOT the complete loser some made out to be. If the ES disappeared from the line up, GS sales would BLOW UP. Many of the 5 series and E class buyers do not care about RWD and fancy rear multi-link suspensions. The want something luxurious, maybe prestigious, but most certainly something where adults can comfortable sit in the rear. The problem with Lexus is, they have two of those that can be bad in the 40,000-50,000 range.

SoCalSC4

Did you read my entire post?

"It would need additional torque and a lower redline - and its' already smaller displacement than the 5.0 liter IS-F engine. It just doesn't make sense... the bean counters will never let it happen, and I doubt the engineers are crazy about the idea, either."

The V12 is pretty old (by modern engine standards), isn't that powerful, and would likely have ULEV emissions challenges.

Fizzboy7

Many errors with Motor Trend and with this article. The 4GS is due for 2011, not 2012. The GS has been on a five year cycle, not six. Also, as stated above, the GS and IS have already shared chassis.
Lastly, what's with all the dissing of the current GS? This car garnered a ton of hype and compliments when it first debuted. It has also sold quite well here in Los Angeles. I wouldn't say it was a failure in any way at all. What we are seeing now is a model that's been out for the length of it's lifespan and the competition has fresher models. That isn't the GS's fault, just a natural progression all cars face. The people I see driving them are older people who want quality, luxury, efficiency, and security. The GS is perfect for those masses and I suspect Lexus is well aware of average GS buyer's needs. We here are enthusiasts who make up a small part of the market.

spwolf

LS has long been the best selling car in its class ;-).

Dont get me wrong, i agree that GS-F would be cool... i just dont think it is crucial. What is crucial is great 4gen GS packaged with good V6 and great hybrid package. Everything else is gravy...

LexFather

Everyone's success is from the low end, not just Lexus.

The XJR debuted after the GS, along with the E55....its been all German power from there

The 3GS dissing is from people that expect it to be just like the 2GS in 1998 Mind you, the new 2006 model was the best selling in history over 34,000 sold. Its no home run but not some awful car some are painting.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

2012 is right around the corner. Where is the 4GS prototypes, spy vids? Not one inkling from Lexus about this car. Is Lexus even serious to contend in the mid size luxury arena? I've been tired of waiting & so have other potential buyers. What to do?? Shop elsewhere.

(Cj)

The LS is $15K less than it's two top competitors. Lexus is trying to move upmarket, so that's where the necessity of a GS-F comes in.

The mindset that all they need is a good V6 is a very Acura-esque mindset and we see where they're at... The GS needs a competitive V6 AND a competitive V8 AND a competitive hybrid (since the new M37 hybrid coming) AND a performance variant. As I said above, the performance variant is not crucial for Lexus's survival, but essential for Lexus's upmarket move.

Also as I pointed out above, making a GS-F doesn't have to be difficult or costly. All they need to do is jack a supercharger on the 2UR-GSE, engineer 500+ hp and 500+ftlbs of tq, and presto they have a competitive GS-F. It wouldn't be as fast as the CTS-V but it would still go a long way into raising Lexus's prestige.

LexFather

We didn't see any 3GS spy mules at all....as a matter of fact the first time we saw the 3GS were shots at "the ring" taken by Lexus weeks before the debut. Of course you knew/forgot that.








Lexus has always been really good at keeping cars out of spies eyes until the car debuts.

No one is tired of waiting and you are making up more hyperbole. The car is on the same cycle like the 5/E class. Were you COMPLAINING about them? No, b/c they are German. So b/c there are no spy mules seen, Lexus is not serious about the class?