nthach

Opposed to it - Obama Motors is using E85 as a blindfold against real innovation, it's even worse than the Honda VTEC veil. HFCS is bad for us as it enters our bloodstream without conversion to a more usable form and it's been linked to higher incidences of diabetes and obesity. And it takes away usable land for food.

I think hybrids and using waste cooking oil for biodiesel is a good step forward, and we need to find better ways to make biofuels without having to use corn - screw ADM and the big seed/pesticide companies.

Lil4X

As I understand it from a few industry sources, the only problem with running ethanol mixtures in excess of 10% is that ethanol in significant concentrations deteriorates rubber components in fuel lines, pumps, and valves. "FlexFuel" vehicles simply substitute other products for rubber and you're good to go - while providing some additional profit for the automaker, a couple hundred bucks for swapping out parts worth a few cents.

While MTBE has been banned, first in California, and slowly in other states because it has a nasty habit of leaching into ground water from leaking tanks and plumbing, it is not used outside major cities. I've gassed up in Houston, driven deep into South Texas, and refueled with regular un-oxygenated gas, and driven home, achieving a mileage increase of 2 mpg. This was not a calibrated test, but it is repeatable and verified both by the car's computer and by my fuel receipts.

If I'm going to depend on used cooking oil for my fuel, I need to increase my consumption of fried chicken, chicken fried steak, and french fries. I can tell my wife that I'm saving the environment.

nthach

I know boats and small engines have issues with ethanol, since all alcohols and glycols have an affinity for water - and it was corroding brass parts in carbs. I had to clean a Briggs Pulsa-Jet carb out for a neighbor since it was so plugged up. It also harms fuel pumps and fuel senders - but the fuel sender issue is more with residual sulfur from the refining process.

Neoprene, Buna-N, Viton, and EPDM are somewhat resistant to the effects of ethanol and methanol - not so much other rubbers.

mmarshall

I've asked local gas stations in my area if they could order gas without ethanol, but they can't, because the EPA requires at least E10 in most areas. Most automakers warn that anything more than E10-E15 can damage fuel systems....except, of course, for E85-certified vehicles. So the automakers generally design the engines for E10-E15 (perhaps an occasional E20).

Apparantly, either that station in ID is selling straight gas illegally, they have an EPA waiver, or, for some reason, EPA doesn't require it in ID.

Even regular E10 can vary in its chemical makeup from place to place, and from season to season, because different blends are required for certain areas and seasons. Winter gas, for example, is different from summer gas.

And, of course, there are the well-known gas additives that can make a difference, too. I personally have a high opinion of Techroline, which is used by Chevron, and V-Power, which is used by Shell. Amoco and Mobil used to have excellent detergent packages, but since both were bought out by other oil companies, you don't really know any more what you are gettting with them.

mmarshall

Except maybe for a few of the companies who are in bio-fuel research and development, it is illegal in most places to run auto or truck diesel engines on cooking oil, because of state and federal taxes that have to be paid on motor fuels. That means that legitimate fuel can only be sold at state-licensed stations.......not your corner supermarket.

Yes, some people do it, but they are taking a risk. And, it is not necesarily cheaper, even without the motor-fuel tax.......a gallon of cooking oil at most grocery stores is likely going to cost more than a gallon of even modern low-sulfur diesel fuel at a station.

The G Man

If the EPA requires 10% ethanol all the time, then what is the difference between summer gas and winter gas? I know my mileage drop by 1 to 2 MPG once they switch to winter gas. You would think that the 10% ethanol is enough alcohol to keep the gas from freezing.

RX469

iTrader: (1)

What is we each emailed our respective fuel company and request such gas, would that get them thinking from our prespective?

rebs

Here's what I've found out so far.

Idaho and the feds (supposedly) don't require oxygenated fuels here, which is why a handful of gas stations (primarily Phillips 66) now actively advertise "No ethanol".

If you google "no ethanol oregon", you will see Oregon passed a law just recently allowing them to sell premium fuels without ethanol.

I would like the U.S. to rely less on foreign oil, but I try to do my part by riding my bike (or my motorcycle) and keeping my miles low on my car. I'd rather not use fuel that is inferior (which after some research...I believe ethanol is); It also sounds like since ethanol "costs" more to produce it's use is counterproductive on many levels.

I believe you would have to write your legislatures to change this issue (and keep the pressure on the feds).

The G Man

It is not counterproductive for the envioment, have you seen the smog in China? Do you want to live like that?

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

China smog is mostly caused by their high pollution factories and not their cars. Although the cars don't help much

The G Man

Did you see the summer Olympics in Beijing, they limited automobile travel for like a month or so before the Olympics and the smog started to clear up.

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

They also shut down all production.

The G Man

Well since we cannot shut down production all the time but we can do our part by using E10 gas.

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

They're trying their best to shut down production in CA I'd be more supportive of ethanol if the US had a better plant to make it from. The exploration of switchgrass should be interesting

The G Man

I agree, using corn to make ethanol just doesnt make sense. There are many ethanol technology on the horizon. I am sure in the near future, ethanol will start to make sense, but we need to invest in this technology today in order to be able to utilize it in the future.