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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 10:50 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by IS-SV
But the point here is that ultra efficient hybrids are typically ugly (Prius-like), the ultra efficient BMW in this case is the usual 3 series body.

Agreed LS, RX, GS are based on existing models, but none are ultra efficient.
There is a reason for it. Research has shown Hybrid buyers WANT to stand out from the crowd. Thus the Prius/HS shape and the Lexus hybrids getting blue emblems and badges.

Some people might prefer not to stand out. Diesels remember are very old tech so they are simply put in the same cars. Hybrids are new tech and many people want new designs to go in.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 12:59 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
There is a reason for it. Research has shown Hybrid buyers WANT to stand out from the crowd. Thus the Prius/HS shape and the Lexus hybrids getting blue emblems and badges.
IMO, that will change soon enough and the research is probably out of date already. Blue emblems and badges are one thing, frumpy, cheeze wedge shapes, narrow tracks, skinny tired, high roof cars are another.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by IS-SV
frumpy, cheeze wedge shapes, narrow tracks, skinny tired, high roof cars are another.
I don't think that study will be outdated anytime soon...

The new Prius is selling like hot cakes around where I live and I see more and more of them everyday.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
There is a reason for it. Research has shown Hybrid buyers WANT to stand out from the crowd. Thus the Prius/HS shape and the Lexus hybrids getting blue emblems and badges.

Some people might prefer not to stand out. Diesels remember are very old tech so they are simply put in the same cars. Hybrids are new tech and many people want new designs to go in.

Where is this research you speak of?


Because that logic doesn't make sense. We can just as well claim that the new Lexus hybrid technology was dropped into the "old (aka "current") body style" GS, LS and [old] RX (remember, their hybrid variants were released after the gasoline engines debuted).

And gasoline engines are also "old technology", too, like diesels.

Only the HS250h applies to this "research" and it was specifically developed to be a hybrid in the first place (while looking like a Euro Toyota Avensis).
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ffpowerLN
I don't think that study will be outdated anytime soon...

The new Prius is selling like hot cakes around where I live and I see more and more of them everyday.
No doubt the new Prius is selling very well, which is not the point. But related to your comment, the new Prius is much more attractive than the last ugly 2 gens of Prius, so the trend has already begun.


The market can be expanded via better styling. Lexus is already testing the waters with the new HS. Yes the HS is so-so styling wise, but not nearly as ugly as the first 2 gens of Prius. The only point I was making is that ultra efficient hybrids will eventually be attractive cars too, just like less efficient GS, RX, Camry hybrids already out.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 01:23 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by DustinV
Where is this research you speak of?


Because that logic doesn't make sense. We can just as well claim that the new Lexus hybrid technology was dropped into the "old (aka "current") body style" GS, LS and [old] RX (remember, their hybrid variants were released after the gasoline engines debuted).

And gasoline engines are also "old technology", too, like diesels.

Only the HS250h applies to this "research" and it was specifically developed to be a hybrid in the first place (while looking like a Euro Toyota Avensis).
I'll post a link but I'm kind of a big deal around here. I have many leather bound books.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/07/25/Auto...brid/index.htm

Toyota: Hybrid drivers want to stand out
Carmaker's study finds that owners want others to know they're driving fuel-efficient cars.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...tag-usat_x.htm

As I stated the Lexus models now have blue emblesm and other badging.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 01:36 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
I'll post a link but I'm kind of a big deal around here. I have many leather bound books.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/07/25/Auto...brid/index.htm

Toyota: Hybrid drivers want to stand out
Carmaker's study finds that owners want others to know they're driving fuel-efficient cars.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...tag-usat_x.htm

As I stated the Lexus models now have blue emblesm and other badging.

I'm not being sarcastic, but those GS, LS and RX designs really don't stand out much to me.

Like most cars in their class, these designs are conservative. They're designed to blend in with the background first and foremost and not turn heads. Naturally design works differently on different people. I doubt a blue hybrid badge will make the car stand out, too.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 01:41 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by DustinV
I'm not being sarcastic, but those GS, LS and RX designs really don't stand out much to me.

Like most cars in their class, these designs are conservative. They're designed to blend in with the background first and foremost and not turn heads. Naturally design works differently on different people. I doubt a blue hybrid badge will make the car stand out, too.
That is your OPINION on their style. That has nothing to do with the the FACT they have hybrid emblems etc to try to stand out. Clearly a Lexus will be more conservative in regards to styling anyway.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 01:44 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Clearly a Lexus will be more conservative in regards to styling anyway.
Nobody here has an outrageous design that screams "look at me" - not even the competition. Playing it safe and conservative and using slow evolutionary design techniques has always been a winning formula in the luxury class.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 01:54 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by DustinV
Nobody here has an outrageous design that screams "look at me" - not even the competition. Playing it safe and conservative and using slow evolutionary design techniques has always been a winning formula in the luxury class.
K. Now what on earth that this have to do with this thread? Oh and BMW designs and many new Benz designs and the giant Audi grill screams "hey look at me"
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 01:58 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
K. Now what on earth that this have to do with this thread? Oh and BMW designs and many new Benz designs and the giant Audi grill screams "hey look at me"
They might to you, but the overall effect of the design is still clearly weighted on being conservative.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 02:01 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by DustinV
They might to you, but the overall effect of the design is still clearly weighted on being conservative.
Again YOUR opinion, which you are entitled to. The FACTS show BMW, Benz, Audi were seen as too conservative, thus they got Bangled in BMWs case, Benz went SUVish with the wheel arches and Audi went big grill to get attention.

You simply cannot compare the German cars of the 1990s and today and say they are still conservative. Most have finally gotten some style. Outside of Audi, they ditched the 1 style, 3 size approach.

I digress though, this thread is supposed to be about this pretty cool BMW diesel.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 02:06 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Again YOUR opinion, which you are entitled to. The FACTS show BMW, Benz, Audi were seen as too conservative, thus they got Bangled in BMWs case, Benz went SUVish with the wheel arches and Audi went big grill to get attention.
The style changes, yes, but the overall effect is still conservative. I look at the new E class and I see a nice-looking car that is handsome, elegant and sporty but the design doesn't make me go "Wow". It's still conservative.


Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
You simply cannot compare the German cars of the 1990s and today and say they are still conservative. Most have finally gotten some style. Outside of Audi, they ditched the 1 style, 3 size approach.
In my opinion they are still conservatively styled - they just look a bit more "modern" (aka "getting with the times").

Yeah, we can argue about this all day. I'm out of here.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 03:47 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by DustinV
The style changes, yes, but the overall effect is still conservative. I look at the new E class and I see a nice-looking car that is handsome, elegant and sporty but the design doesn't make me go "Wow". It's still conservative.
Yeah, you just described the HS.
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Old Aug 24, 2009 | 03:57 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
What?. Do you feel better now.
I wouldent say I feel better I would say I feel smug just like the prius driver's.

I found 1sick singing on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5kLtdUErxY

(jk 1sick, your a great guy just thought you might get a laugh)

Last edited by bad co; Aug 24, 2009 at 04:02 PM.
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