Listen I don't want people to get the wrong idea. I have been a passionate member since 1998. (this is when I saw a GS & SC flying down the highway & said :Oh my GOD!!!)
MPLexus 301- Well said! I think L-Finesse design & interiors are sterile, subpar & boring (too conservative) compared to the competition. It's like L-finesse took the passion out of Lexus design. The competition offers sporty packages & option interiors. Lexus offers less options & bland hospital type of set-up. I think L-finesse must translate into "VULCAN"
Vulcan's (Spock) must have influenced Lexus styling. "Show no emotion in your design & styling. Nice to have Vulcan's styling their luxo cars.
Is it so wrong to have a aggressive design,power,& sporty styling?
I mean which car has visual impact GS or CLS or A5 it's a no brainer! L-finesse is L-boring. ggeezzz.& crackers! In the end I think this philosophy is what is hurting Lexus future sales. Lexus is like saying to the buying public " We are not as good as the 5-series,MB,or Audi. Don't buy our cars, unless you like bland car that is very reliable!" I thought boring car was Toyota.
sshheesshh!

 

Great thread!!!!!

 

I wonder which company is contracted for Lexus interior R&D..I know for domestics (Ford/Chrysler/ and also for some of VW's cars) its Johnson's interior control systems)

 

I am definitely not in your league. I just did the four doors. Obviously the trunk needs some help and that will let you get the rear fenders. Getting the front fenders to not move in sympathy to the tires would be a bit more of a challenge. 50lbs of sound deadening is a lot more serious than I got, or expected to have to do to a Lexus.

 

Guys, with regards to sound deadening, the last generation of pre L-finesse models had plenty of sound insulation built into the panels, in the form of foam sandwiched between plastic layer and vinyl layer, rather than being applied as a separate layer on the inside of panels. Take a look at the attached photo of LS430 center console panel, notice its about 3/8" thick. For instance the center console on the original LS400 contain none of the sound insulating foam and is only 1/8" thick.

http://69.114.250.73:83/misc/p1010109.jpg

 

Thats a great picture. Thanks Och!

Also, thanks to everyone who has shared opinions and insights in this thread. It has been useful.

 

I agree with this thread and don't have much more to add.

On topic of the 3GS, I think that all the engine changes were made *in order* to better compete with the Germans and not to let the product get dated. Although I will admit the GS460 is very disappointing, in that it does not share the power output of the LS460. Also despite the fact the GS had a bunch of engine changes, the IS so far has had no engine changes with the exception of the IS-F. The IS250 in particular has been very disappointing. Lexus desperately needs to change the engine on the IS250 for something better.

As for interior colors, Lexus is getting a little bit better, but still not enough. Lexus needs to accelerate their efforts and quickly add new and exciting interior colors to their vehicles in the future.

 

Excellent thread MPLexus

Who/what does Lexus uses for their R&D? I'm sure time and time again, that they should Club Lexus for our opinions regarding what we want in their upcoming products.
Why not? It's free for them and ALL of us enthusiasts can provide useful informations so that the upcoming products can be more exciting-thus better sales for Lexus.
If not, people are just jumping ships because I agree with everyone that it's getting a little stale.

 

part of LUXURY to me, is GETTING WHAT YOU WANT. lexus still pretty much options out the cars just like toyotas. that is NOT luxury. THAT is a problem.

yes, bmw/mb cost more, but maybe that's because of the
waste inherent in offering more choices, but what you call waste, i call luxury. in a similar way, there's a reason HREs are expensive. they are all custom fit / design option combo - whatever you want.

lexus has been successful DESPITE this weakness, because their cars WERE extraordinarily more refined and reliable than the competition. but that, as we know, has changed.

sure lexus still sells very well relatively, mostly to people who aren't very picky about what they want, and that makes them just, kind of a step above entry level luxury perhaps.

i've often said, lexus is buick done right. while very nice, i don't think it's even remotely close to mb/bmw. but it depends on what you want, how flexible you are, and how much you're willing to compromise.

 

I have to admit I wasnt blown away by the interior design of my GS. I felt that the interior and dash were monotone, and needed more wood. My wifes acura TL has a better interior/dash design than my GS

 

I agree completely. Over the last 20 years they have perfected the general formula, but they are still missing the little details that really mean luxury to the people who know luxury. There is a quote about how the true meaning of luxury is having a choice among a greater number of options. For Lexus, the options are still relatively limited.

 

Bit, what you are saying is true, but only in the recent few years. I'd say pre 2006 Lexus was tops. BMW and MB might have had more options, but thier interiors were so dull and non intuitive, not to mention that most of their cars had so-so performance. I mean, C240 or 325 with 180hp with dull dull interiors. And besides very rare V12 and expensive ///M and AMG models, Lexus 4.3 fared very well against them. Not to mention that Lexus designs were better - I mean seriously, the 2GS and 2SC were wickid when they came out, compared to lets say booooooooooooooooring E class of that era.

However in the recent few years the Germans have elevated their game tremendously, and Lexus has dropped the ball. And if you look at their sales numbers, you can see that the sales of LS, GS, IS, SC, LX and GX are laughable compared to 3, C, E, 5, S, 7, SL, 6, X5, ML, GL. The only two models that sell relatively well are RX and ES, and that is simply because they are priced like entry level models but sized and optioned like competitions middle level cars - for instance the ES is priced in 3/C category but often cross shopped with E/5 series. However with recent elevation of competition against the ES/RX, their sales are bound to suffer, and hopefully that will get Lexus thinking long and hard. I mean seriously, why would anyone buy the ES over the Genesis?

 

great post Och!

and besides the lexus badge, i agree with you about why anyone would want an es350 over a genesis.

 

Neither car will be heavily cross shopped by enthusiasts. These buyers have different priorities.

YTD the ES is outselling the Genesis 2 to 1 even though it's about to enter its 4th model year and in need of a refresh. I'm sure this gap will be closing in the upcoming months though.

 

Yes, but enthusiasts are a small percentage of the car buyers.

That is true, but that just tells you how much the badge means afterall. The Lexus badge is very very established, while Hundai's badge is still suffering from the old reputation.

With that being said, if you overlook the badge, theres just simply not a single reason to buy the ES over the Genesis, besides maybe the fact that Lexus dealerships generally provide better service than Hundai.