Originally Posted by FKL

hmm, I'm in Danville and have seen quite a few CCs driving down 680 to SJ. I've only seen two new A4s in my travels

Originally Posted by IS-SV

So I'll probably see the CC's soon enough since many people in Danville commute to SV. Certainly plenty of money is spent on television ads lately for the CC.

Originally Posted by LexBob2

I don't know when the CC came out, but in December 664 were sold (2,105 YTD). For comparision the Passat sedan sold 2,134 in Dec (24,375 YTD).

The CC is nice looking.

Originally Posted by FKL

Thanks for those numbers! We'll see if sales hold. The margins are just as bad as the Passat, by the way.

Originally Posted by IS-SV

Those CC numbers seem low at first glance, ignoring the ytd because CC came out late in the year. For December only with sales under 1K units (versus IS at 4K and ES at 5K for comparison), looks like a bit of a struggle to start. Or is maybe this is another VW struggle to go upmarket in the US.

But if the margins are slim, less of a problem. Jetta sales numbers were very impressive for 2008 at 91K units.

Originally Posted by LexBob2

If it is another attempt to go upmarket, you're right, it could be a struggle. A lot of potential buyers in this segment will look at the V6, and it gets pretty pricey compared to the established competition.

Originally Posted by FKL

Two problems:

The Passat is a relatively costly car for VWoA to import into North America. The margin on the cars is razor thin, which is why you see the company streamlining the models offered for 2009 (2.0T Lux only - $28,000). The Passat is now being positioned as a higher-end model, as the next European car will demonstrate (compete with the midsize luxury sedans). VW simply cannot compete with Accords and Camrys (with sub $20K entry prices) with their costly Passat. Sure it's a great car, but importing them from Emden and making close to nothing off of every one they sell doesn't make sense anylonger, which is why you have a new $1B investment in TN.

Secondly, the current 2005.5-present model has gone hopelessly upmarket. For the 2006 model year you could actually get a 3.6 VR6 eqiupped model for $30,000 (as you could with the 98-05 model), but for the next year they streamlined the product models and got rid of most options, bundling the VR6 at a $38,000 entry tab, pre-navigation. The car could reach past $40K once every option (sports package, adaptive cruise) were added. They just couldn't sell them, the 2.0T making up for nearly 85% of sales (if I recall). The average transaction price for the CC, by the way, is around ~$33K (80% uptake for luxury package), so VWoA is seriously considering dropping the entry level $27K model next year. Whatever the case, the Passat won't be going anywhere, just moving upmarket (as it really always has been).

Also, keep in mind when they say slotted between the Jetta and Passat, they are talking about the price. The interior volume will be slightly larger than the current Passat, but virtually identicle. It will be "better designed" with the US consumer in mind, which means downgraded damping more on par with the Japanese competition. I'm very worried they will overly-"Japaneseify" the car as I call it, forgoing the very values that make a VW a VW (and the only reasons to put up with their ownership costs).

Originally Posted by IS-SV

Exactly, I looked at the CC V6/AWD and saw the nearly Mercedes C-class/Lexus IS price tag and that was the end of my interest.

Originally Posted by IS-SV

Good info and insight on VW's US attempts.

Regarding:

"I'm very worried they will overly-"Japaneseify" the car as I call it, forgoing the very values that make a VW a VW (and the only reasons to put up with their ownership costs)."

I assume the "ownership costs" referenced above are related to mediocre reliability and depreciation rates...? Certainly some of the factors that have kept me from owning a V-dub in last decade.

Originally Posted by FKL

Keep in mind the Passat is a larger than the C or IS, it's ES/MKS/TL sized. Also, I had the same V6 bias before I drove a 2.0T FSI (TSI for 09) motor. The engine itself is good enough for the Audi A4, and the vast majority of those cars are not equipped with the 3.2 V6.

Originally Posted by IS-SV

Exactly, I looked at the CC V6/AWD and saw the nearly Mercedes C-class/Lexus IS price tag and that was the end of my interest.

Originally Posted by IS-SV

Yes, but buyers are not picking cars by size alone these days, as the comparably strong sales of the C-class and IS have shown.

Originally Posted by FKL

Huh?

Bottom line is the CC is not a direct competitor to the smaller similarly priced entry level sports luxury sedans, in the same vein that a Buick or Lincoln or even ES is not. To compare the price directly to that of the much smaller C and IS is apples to oranges.

Originally Posted by IS-SV

Huh, then what is CC competing against. Based on sales numbers, it almost looks like the S2000. If you are only basing it on size alone, then the CC is losing in a huge way versus the Camry, Accord, ES, E-class, 5 series, Malibu, etc.

But it really doesn't matter. Short answer the CC is facing a bigger headwind than most and the poor sales results are obvious.