Car and Driver - Hybrid Comparo (1.Fusion, 2. Camry, 3. Altima, 4. Malibu)
01-05-09, 09:27 PM
#1
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Car and Driver - Hybrid Comparo (1.Fusion, 2. Camry, 3. Altima, 4. Malibu)
I pretty much concur with their findings here. Great job Ford and Toyota!
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...omparison_test
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...omparison_test
01-05-09, 09:46 PM
#4
Congrats to Ford 
In a lot of ways I am glad to see the domestic carmakers striking back here. I really think that Toyota got complacent over the last few years, much like Detroit at earlier points, and lost their focus because they only had to build cars that were "good enough" to best the domestics- it was no longer difficult to be number one, so why try harder? Toyota used to build some of the best cars when they were being challenged and still had something to prove and I am glad to see those days returning. Ford and GM have been steadily challenging Toyota's sedan portfolio, both with hybrids and gas models, and they have proven that they are not dead yet...especially when Toyota builds cars like the current gen Camry, Corolla, and Avalon that have really been less of a step forward tha their previous generations, and maybe in some dimensions a step back. Toyota can not afford to get comfortable again, because GM and Ford are going to come back with a vengeance.
Venza and Highlander are, IMO, the two best products in their portfolio right now and both represent the Toyota philosophy that I used to know and love. Clever engineering and packaging, polished driving dynamics and performance, top notch interiors and features, and some passion in the design. I hope they continue to get back to what they do best and realize that "good enough" cars will never really fly, no matter who makes them. Hopefully having real competition again will bring back the old Toyota...which is great for consumers on all sides.
In a lot of ways I am glad to see the domestic carmakers striking back here. I really think that Toyota got complacent over the last few years, much like Detroit at earlier points, and lost their focus because they only had to build cars that were "good enough" to best the domestics- it was no longer difficult to be number one, so why try harder? Toyota used to build some of the best cars when they were being challenged and still had something to prove and I am glad to see those days returning. Ford and GM have been steadily challenging Toyota's sedan portfolio, both with hybrids and gas models, and they have proven that they are not dead yet...especially when Toyota builds cars like the current gen Camry, Corolla, and Avalon that have really been less of a step forward tha their previous generations, and maybe in some dimensions a step back. Toyota can not afford to get comfortable again, because GM and Ford are going to come back with a vengeance.
Venza and Highlander are, IMO, the two best products in their portfolio right now and both represent the Toyota philosophy that I used to know and love. Clever engineering and packaging, polished driving dynamics and performance, top notch interiors and features, and some passion in the design. I hope they continue to get back to what they do best and realize that "good enough" cars will never really fly, no matter who makes them. Hopefully having real competition again will bring back the old Toyota...which is great for consumers on all sides.
Last edited by MPLexus301; 01-05-09 at 09:53 PM.
01-05-09, 10:00 PM
#5
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Congrats to Ford
In a lot of ways I am glad to see the domestic carmakers striking back here.
Ford and GM have been steadily challenging Toyota's sedan portfolio, both with hybrids and gas models, and they have proven that they are not dead yet...especially when Toyota builds cars like the current gen Camry, Corolla, and Avalon that have really been less of a step forward tha their previous generations, and maybe in some dimensions a step back. Toyota can not afford to get comfortable again, because GM and Ford are going to come back with a vengeance.
In a lot of ways I am glad to see the domestic carmakers striking back here.
Ford and GM have been steadily challenging Toyota's sedan portfolio, both with hybrids and gas models, and they have proven that they are not dead yet...especially when Toyota builds cars like the current gen Camry, Corolla, and Avalon that have really been less of a step forward tha their previous generations, and maybe in some dimensions a step back. Toyota can not afford to get comfortable again, because GM and Ford are going to come back with a vengeance.
). I would disagree with you that GM has been challenging Toyota however. If you look at the Malibu reviewed it is not a true hybrid like the other three vehicles. I find it amazing that GM can be that far behind the game that they couldn't complete the development of a true hybrid, and instead introduced a "mild" hybrid to "get in the game". Just one more example of why Ford will continue and GM will struggle.I also found it interesting that Nissan was willing to buy Toyota's hybrid tech to use in conjunction with their own engines. I guess that just goes to show how far ahead of the curve Toyota is when even another Japanese manufacturer is willing to purchase their tech rather than develop their own.
01-05-09, 11:42 PM
#6
well done Ford! They're the only other company to provide a full hybrid system to compete with Toyota. This Fusion took a while to come out but I think it's worth the wait. The FEH was impressive (the hybrid drivetrain, not the plastics... they were still crap) so looking forward to test driving the FFH.
01-06-09, 12:40 AM
#7
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Hopefully this is a wake up call to some product planners at Toyota who have focused on cushy rides soley.
The Camry has never really been liked by these car magazines, however. There is an old Road and Track from 2001 that I still have in which the $31,000 "Camry" XLE V6 came in sixth place, out of seven cars. Number one reason? They mentioned it felt and drove like an appliance - an expensive one at that. Something's never seem to change. The Fusion, upon it's introduction, offered something the Taurus could never offer - an enjoyable driving experience (it shares it's platform with the Mazda 6, if you remember). The writing's all over the wall for the next Camry to offer something outside of smoothness. Sportiness and driving satisfaction were never traits of it's immediate competitors all had, but look at the niche the Altima exploited upon it's 2002 debut. To constantly undermine and arrogantly snub off the competition's growing edge in the steering/handling/road feel is blind at best, stupid at worst. It may have worked when only a handful of manufactures were exploiting it, but when nearly all are offering something outside of yacht driving limits, it's time for a change out of the Camry, on all trim levels.
The Camry has never really been liked by these car magazines, however. There is an old Road and Track from 2001 that I still have in which the $31,000 "Camry" XLE V6 came in sixth place, out of seven cars. Number one reason? They mentioned it felt and drove like an appliance - an expensive one at that. Something's never seem to change. The Fusion, upon it's introduction, offered something the Taurus could never offer - an enjoyable driving experience (it shares it's platform with the Mazda 6, if you remember). The writing's all over the wall for the next Camry to offer something outside of smoothness. Sportiness and driving satisfaction were never traits of it's immediate competitors all had, but look at the niche the Altima exploited upon it's 2002 debut. To constantly undermine and arrogantly snub off the competition's growing edge in the steering/handling/road feel is blind at best, stupid at worst. It may have worked when only a handful of manufactures were exploiting it, but when nearly all are offering something outside of yacht driving limits, it's time for a change out of the Camry, on all trim levels.
Last edited by FKL; 01-06-09 at 12:45 AM.
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01-06-09, 12:43 AM
#8
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The Camry is the top selling car what 9 out the last 10 years or so. Its clear that BUYERS have no issues with the ride.
Maybe they should copy the Camry's suspension if they want to sell more
FWIW, I am not a fan of how it drives either (SE is much better).
Maybe they should copy the Camry's suspension if they want to sell more
FWIW, I am not a fan of how it drives either (SE is much better).
01-06-09, 12:55 AM
#9
Lexus Champion
well done Ford! They're the only other company to provide a full hybrid system to compete with Toyota. This Fusion took a while to come out but I think it's worth the wait. The FEH was impressive (the hybrid drivetrain, not the plastics... they were still crap) so looking forward to test driving the FFH.
GM's hybrid system is a more bastardized and less integrated version of the parallel hybrid system like Honda's IMA - while IMA has the 144V DC motor bolted onto the flywheel, GM's "hybrids" use a belt alternator/starter and offers only an auto-stop capablity and assist - much like IMA.
Last edited by nthach; 01-06-09 at 01:02 AM.
01-06-09, 01:02 AM
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it's not just the suspension - the steering feel, road feedback, tracking -The car is just wholy and totally disconnected from the road. This is the sole reason I went to buy a Honda instead. The Camry felt more refined, was quieter (and had a better stereo), but at the end of the day, the way it drove did nothing to inspire any sort of confidence, for me.
I totally understand not messing with a good thing, I'm just hoping with more and more competition focusing and exploiting driving "fun" out of their machines that Toyota will take notice.
01-06-09, 05:42 AM
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Great job Ford. The others are all instantly second fiddle. That includes the Camry. The impressive thing about the Fusion is that it's a fusion (no pun intended) of all the other car's strengths and does them all one better.
I really hope Detroit continues to come out swinging with great products like this. I only hope it's not too late.
I really hope Detroit continues to come out swinging with great products like this. I only hope it's not too late.
01-06-09, 07:56 AM
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Not surprised here.
However, I would have thought that the Fusion hybrid would have been quicker to 60, though perhaps not if its trying to run frugally on electric power.
Also, the Malibu hybrid now has a 6 speed so this test isnt quite accurate.
However, I would have thought that the Fusion hybrid would have been quicker to 60, though perhaps not if its trying to run frugally on electric power.
Also, the Malibu hybrid now has a 6 speed so this test isnt quite accurate.
01-06-09, 09:49 AM
#14
Congrats to Ford
In a lot of ways I am glad to see the domestic carmakers striking back here. I really think that Toyota got complacent over the last few years, much like Detroit at earlier points, and lost their focus because they only had to build cars that were "good enough" to best the domestics- it was no longer difficult to be number one, so why try harder? Toyota used to build some of the best cars when they were being challenged and still had something to prove and I am glad to see those days returning. Ford and GM have been steadily challenging Toyota's sedan portfolio, both with hybrids and gas models, and they have proven that they are not dead yet...especially when Toyota builds cars like the current gen Camry, Corolla, and Avalon that have really been less of a step forward tha their previous generations, and maybe in some dimensions a step back. Toyota can not afford to get comfortable again, because GM and Ford are going to come back with a vengeance.
Venza and Highlander are, IMO, the two best products in their portfolio right now and both represent the Toyota philosophy that I used to know and love. Clever engineering and packaging, polished driving dynamics and performance, top notch interiors and features, and some passion in the design. I hope they continue to get back to what they do best and realize that "good enough" cars will never really fly, no matter who makes them. Hopefully having real competition again will bring back the old Toyota...which is great for consumers on all sides.
In a lot of ways I am glad to see the domestic carmakers striking back here. I really think that Toyota got complacent over the last few years, much like Detroit at earlier points, and lost their focus because they only had to build cars that were "good enough" to best the domestics- it was no longer difficult to be number one, so why try harder? Toyota used to build some of the best cars when they were being challenged and still had something to prove and I am glad to see those days returning. Ford and GM have been steadily challenging Toyota's sedan portfolio, both with hybrids and gas models, and they have proven that they are not dead yet...especially when Toyota builds cars like the current gen Camry, Corolla, and Avalon that have really been less of a step forward tha their previous generations, and maybe in some dimensions a step back. Toyota can not afford to get comfortable again, because GM and Ford are going to come back with a vengeance.
Venza and Highlander are, IMO, the two best products in their portfolio right now and both represent the Toyota philosophy that I used to know and love. Clever engineering and packaging, polished driving dynamics and performance, top notch interiors and features, and some passion in the design. I hope they continue to get back to what they do best and realize that "good enough" cars will never really fly, no matter who makes them. Hopefully having real competition again will bring back the old Toyota...which is great for consumers on all sides.
They loved the car for what it was.
Conclusion?
The Verdict: Refined and sophisticated, a Lexus without the silk-stocking
As to the Fusion, I am very suprised that it is slower than Camry and that it gets mpg similar to camry, when it should be 5mpg higher according to EPA.
I had my doubts when first numbers from EPA appeared - i thought it is possible that Fusion, first hybrid coming after new EPA test rules, might have been tuned better for EPA tests, and it seems I was right.
Obviously C&D preffers fusion in todays climate... it is perfectly fine too... I still remember how many COTY Taurus won decade ago :-).
I wonder how well fusion will sell... it is also more expensive than Camry.
01-06-09, 12:23 PM
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Apparently Ford is doing something right.
Consumer Reports picks top Detroit cars, Ford dominates list
Consumer Reports magazine said today that the Detroit Big 3 are “heading in the right direction.” While praising Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Corp., Consumer Reports warns that Chrysler LLC is falling far behind its domestic rivals.
The magazine said that after recent road and reliability tests reports show that Ford has matched the quality of foreign automakers on several of its models. GM models, while behind Ford, have performed a lot better than their predecessors.
Consumer Reports named the Chevrolet Malibu LTZ as its top-rated Detroit-made car. Ford cars included the Ford Fusion SEL, Ford Taurus X, Ford Taurus, Mercury Milan Premier, Mercury Sable and the Lincoln MKZ. No Chrysler vehicles were recommended.
“Ford has been doing a lot right on reliability for the past five years,” said David Champion, the magazine’s chief car tester. “It’s not immediately apparent that the Ford Fusion would be more reliable than the Toyota Camry, but it is, and the Fusion is one of the more reliable family sedans on the market.”
Consumer Reports picks top Detroit cars, Ford dominates list
Consumer Reports magazine said today that the Detroit Big 3 are “heading in the right direction.” While praising Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Corp., Consumer Reports warns that Chrysler LLC is falling far behind its domestic rivals.
The magazine said that after recent road and reliability tests reports show that Ford has matched the quality of foreign automakers on several of its models. GM models, while behind Ford, have performed a lot better than their predecessors.
Consumer Reports named the Chevrolet Malibu LTZ as its top-rated Detroit-made car. Ford cars included the Ford Fusion SEL, Ford Taurus X, Ford Taurus, Mercury Milan Premier, Mercury Sable and the Lincoln MKZ. No Chrysler vehicles were recommended.
“Ford has been doing a lot right on reliability for the past five years,” said David Champion, the magazine’s chief car tester. “It’s not immediately apparent that the Ford Fusion would be more reliable than the Toyota Camry, but it is, and the Fusion is one of the more reliable family sedans on the market.”