IL Insider: Next-Generation Lexus SC?
07-12-08, 08:38 PM
#31
So Lexus is gonna pull out says IL? I doubt it. I mean cars like the SL are classics and they don't change often. I don't think Lexus plans to have the SC as a volume car.
However, I do hope they go back to the roots and make a car as desirable as the 1st gen.
However, I do hope they go back to the roots and make a car as desirable as the 1st gen.
07-12-08, 08:48 PM
#32
My predictions with the SC...
O.K. I have said it before, and this is what I think will happen:
a) The SC430 will be discontinued. For the same power (approx 300hp), the IS350 coupe/convertible will take its place. Now, it may not be as luxurious, but it provides much more technology, sport, and gas efficiency for a lot less money.
b) An SC460, as much as we would love to have Lexus create one, would no longer profitable and plausible. Because of a bad economy, high gas prices, and "middle kid syndrome" between the IS c/c and LF-A; the SC460 will not be profitable, especially if it is made as a soft-tourer, while the IS c/c and LF-A are more performance oriented. It would be more plausible to create an ES350 coupe (*gasp*) such that of the Solara if Lexus wants to create a soft-touring coupe...
c) The LF-A would be the halo coupe (duh!). I have always considered the LF-A as the next SC-F, but since the SC460 is unlikely, the LF-A will be original. Granted, Lexus can still call the LF-A the SC-F or the SC500, but we won't know what Lexus has planned for it. It can retain the SC heritage, or go completely independent and have a unique moniker.
a) The SC430 will be discontinued. For the same power (approx 300hp), the IS350 coupe/convertible will take its place. Now, it may not be as luxurious, but it provides much more technology, sport, and gas efficiency for a lot less money.
b) An SC460, as much as we would love to have Lexus create one, would no longer profitable and plausible. Because of a bad economy, high gas prices, and "middle kid syndrome" between the IS c/c and LF-A; the SC460 will not be profitable, especially if it is made as a soft-tourer, while the IS c/c and LF-A are more performance oriented. It would be more plausible to create an ES350 coupe (*gasp*) such that of the Solara if Lexus wants to create a soft-touring coupe...
c) The LF-A would be the halo coupe (duh!). I have always considered the LF-A as the next SC-F, but since the SC460 is unlikely, the LF-A will be original. Granted, Lexus can still call the LF-A the SC-F or the SC500, but we won't know what Lexus has planned for it. It can retain the SC heritage, or go completely independent and have a unique moniker.
07-12-08, 08:59 PM
#33
My predictions with the Avalon...
The Avalon will always provide more passenger room than the Camry. And just because of that, it's necessary to keep it.
Now, the Accord and Altima have grown to almost Avalon-like proportions, but they never really compete with the Avalon.
The only reason why Toyota will create a Camry-L instead of the Avalon is to maintain the #1 sedan sales ranking, and that seems a bit too fickle.
The Camry will have three variants by next year: the Camry sedan, the Solara coupe, and the Venza crossover. The Avalon can be simplified as the Camry limo/long-wheelbase, but it just seems too rudimentary to combine it.
Toyota should keep the Avalon. Let it compete with other full size sedans, and not downgrate it to compete with midsize models.
Now, the Accord and Altima have grown to almost Avalon-like proportions, but they never really compete with the Avalon.
The only reason why Toyota will create a Camry-L instead of the Avalon is to maintain the #1 sedan sales ranking, and that seems a bit too fickle.
The Camry will have three variants by next year: the Camry sedan, the Solara coupe, and the Venza crossover. The Avalon can be simplified as the Camry limo/long-wheelbase, but it just seems too rudimentary to combine it.
Toyota should keep the Avalon. Let it compete with other full size sedans, and not downgrate it to compete with midsize models.
07-12-08, 09:06 PM
#34
The Avalon will always provide more passenger room than the Camry. And just because of that, it's necessary to keep it.
Now, the Accord and Altima have grown to almost Avalon-like proportions, but they never really compete with the Avalon.
The only reason why Toyota will create a Camry-L instead of the Avalon is to maintain the #1 sedan sales ranking, and that seems a bit too fickle.
The Camry will have three variants by next year: the Camry sedan, the Solara coupe, and the Venza crossover. The Avalon can be simplified as the Camry limo/long-wheelbase, but it just seems too rudimentary to combine it.
Toyota should keep the Avalon. Let it compete with other full size sedans, and not downgrate it to compete with midsize models.
Now, the Accord and Altima have grown to almost Avalon-like proportions, but they never really compete with the Avalon.
The only reason why Toyota will create a Camry-L instead of the Avalon is to maintain the #1 sedan sales ranking, and that seems a bit too fickle.
The Camry will have three variants by next year: the Camry sedan, the Solara coupe, and the Venza crossover. The Avalon can be simplified as the Camry limo/long-wheelbase, but it just seems too rudimentary to combine it.
Toyota should keep the Avalon. Let it compete with other full size sedans, and not downgrate it to compete with midsize models.
07-12-08, 09:09 PM
#35
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id have to agree with you there philip
the current GS platform is only ideal for making another middle of the road convertible that wont be selling spectacularly
with the IS c/c coming out soon, why bother with another SC class convertible unless lexus wants to be the next mercedes...
as for the naming of LF-A when it goes into production, i dont think it matters either way since it will be the enthusiast market that it will be targeting
people that will talk endlessly about it and no matter what name it has, people will be judging it by its performance and not its name
the current GS platform is only ideal for making another middle of the road convertible that wont be selling spectacularly
with the IS c/c coming out soon, why bother with another SC class convertible unless lexus wants to be the next mercedes...
as for the naming of LF-A when it goes into production, i dont think it matters either way since it will be the enthusiast market that it will be targeting
people that will talk endlessly about it and no matter what name it has, people will be judging it by its performance and not its name
07-12-08, 09:10 PM
#36
Tough to say though esp. since the ES is almost as roomy (just missing the width) and a lot more luxurious for not much more coin. Granted, it's a very small market that the Avalon's targeting with the traditional fullsize buyer. I mean they even dropped the Touring Edition here in Canada. It would be nice if they brought back a good Touring Edition to go head-to-head with the Maxima and just an XLS or Limited for the traditional buyer with more Lexus-like amenities. (We don't get the Avalon Limited in Canada).
Another problem with the Avalon is its close pricing proximity to the ES350 when comparably equipped.
My parents bought an ES350 a year ago, and when my brother wanted it, they ordered an Avalon to take its place. And there was only a $5k difference when loaded with the same amenities...
Last edited by PhilipMSPT; 07-12-08 at 09:13 PM.
07-12-08, 09:39 PM
#37
Lexus Fanatic
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The first gen SC was so wonderful and Lexus then ruined it with the second gen.
The second gen GS was so wonderful and Lexus then ruined it with the third gen.
Fortunately, the IS, ES, LS and SUVs seem to improve.
The second gen GS was so wonderful and Lexus then ruined it with the third gen.
Fortunately, the IS, ES, LS and SUVs seem to improve.
07-12-08, 09:49 PM
#38
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O.K. I have said it before, and this is what I think will happen:
a) The SC430 will be discontinued. For the same power (approx 300hp), the IS350 coupe/convertible will take its place. Now, it may not be as luxurious, but it provides much more technology, sport, and gas efficiency for a lot less money.
b) An SC460, as much as we would love to have Lexus create one, would no longer profitable and plausible. Because of a bad economy, high gas prices, and "middle kid syndrome" between the IS c/c and LF-A; the SC460 will not be profitable, especially if it is made as a soft-tourer, while the IS c/c and LF-A are more performance oriented. It would be more plausible to create an ES350 coupe (*gasp*) such that of the Solara if Lexus wants to create a soft-touring coupe...
c) The LF-A would be the halo coupe (duh!). I have always considered the LF-A as the next SC-F, but since the SC460 is unlikely, the LF-A will be original. Granted, Lexus can still call the LF-A the SC-F or the SC500, but we won't know what Lexus has planned for it. It can retain the SC heritage, or go completely independent and have a unique moniker.
a) The SC430 will be discontinued. For the same power (approx 300hp), the IS350 coupe/convertible will take its place. Now, it may not be as luxurious, but it provides much more technology, sport, and gas efficiency for a lot less money.
b) An SC460, as much as we would love to have Lexus create one, would no longer profitable and plausible. Because of a bad economy, high gas prices, and "middle kid syndrome" between the IS c/c and LF-A; the SC460 will not be profitable, especially if it is made as a soft-tourer, while the IS c/c and LF-A are more performance oriented. It would be more plausible to create an ES350 coupe (*gasp*) such that of the Solara if Lexus wants to create a soft-touring coupe...
c) The LF-A would be the halo coupe (duh!). I have always considered the LF-A as the next SC-F, but since the SC460 is unlikely, the LF-A will be original. Granted, Lexus can still call the LF-A the SC-F or the SC500, but we won't know what Lexus has planned for it. It can retain the SC heritage, or go completely independent and have a unique moniker.
07-13-08, 12:41 AM
#39
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here's what I think Toyota/Lexus should have done to SC
2006: add SC350 to the line-up along with SC430. new engine, new gearbox, paddle shifters, sportier suspension, etc. I don't think offering a V6 in the line-up will hurt SC's image
2007: ditch the 4.3 V8, introduce SC460. again, new engine, new gearbox
the point is to update the SC and make it fresh. but it's too late now
2006: add SC350 to the line-up along with SC430. new engine, new gearbox, paddle shifters, sportier suspension, etc. I don't think offering a V6 in the line-up will hurt SC's image
2007: ditch the 4.3 V8, introduce SC460. again, new engine, new gearbox
the point is to update the SC and make it fresh. but it's too late now
07-13-08, 01:45 AM
#40
Pole Position
here's what I think Toyota/Lexus should have done to SC
2006: add SC350 to the line-up along with SC430. new engine, new gearbox, paddle shifters, sportier suspension, etc. I don't think offering a V6 in the line-up will hurt SC's image
2007: ditch the 4.3 V8, introduce SC460. again, new engine, new gearbox
the point is to update the SC and make it fresh. but it's too late now
2006: add SC350 to the line-up along with SC430. new engine, new gearbox, paddle shifters, sportier suspension, etc. I don't think offering a V6 in the line-up will hurt SC's image
2007: ditch the 4.3 V8, introduce SC460. again, new engine, new gearbox
the point is to update the SC and make it fresh. but it's too late now
07-13-08, 09:43 AM
#41
Lexus Champion
As for the Avalon being dropped i think what Toyota needs to do first is separate it and the camry a little more than what they are curently doing. Style the avalon more like the crown and make it more of a maxima competitor.
07-13-08, 09:52 AM
#42
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I don't think many of you truly understand how much of the "crown jewel" the SC is. See it is very polarizing and it is old now but we are FORGETTING how hot it was in 2002 and the positive effect it had on Lexus.
This car will and cannot be discontinued. If anything expect more models and a possible SC-F model as the LF-A (whatever it will be called) will debut and Lexus will need coupes for people to buy for those that cannot get the LF-A.
We should see the IS coupe, new SC and LF-A soon.
If ANYTHING is happening, its what to turn the next SC into? There is A LOT of internal debate to keep it small and a convert like now or a true 4 seat GT/convert ala Maserati or Jag XK.
This car will and cannot be discontinued. If anything expect more models and a possible SC-F model as the LF-A (whatever it will be called) will debut and Lexus will need coupes for people to buy for those that cannot get the LF-A.
We should see the IS coupe, new SC and LF-A soon.
If ANYTHING is happening, its what to turn the next SC into? There is A LOT of internal debate to keep it small and a convert like now or a true 4 seat GT/convert ala Maserati or Jag XK.
07-13-08, 09:54 AM
#43
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As for the Avalon, we are also forgetting when it debuted in 1996 or so, the market was not nearly as crowded as today.
Today we have a SLEW of 30-40k cars that are damn good. Now even Buick and Hyundai and Pontiac have sweet cars in this segment. Infiniti has a good size G35. THe LExus ES is bigger than ever.
If anything, they need to bring a hybrid Avalon.
Look at the ES/TL/G35/CTS. All pretty big in size and they offer some "badge cred" the Avalon cannot match. Add in lease deals and it makes them very attractive.
The 30-40k segment is just way to hot and you cannot slip here.
Today we have a SLEW of 30-40k cars that are damn good. Now even Buick and Hyundai and Pontiac have sweet cars in this segment. Infiniti has a good size G35. THe LExus ES is bigger than ever.
If anything, they need to bring a hybrid Avalon.
Look at the ES/TL/G35/CTS. All pretty big in size and they offer some "badge cred" the Avalon cannot match. Add in lease deals and it makes them very attractive.
The 30-40k segment is just way to hot and you cannot slip here.
07-13-08, 10:08 AM
#44
Lexus Test Driver
I don't think they can simply replace the SC with a IS coupe/vert. How can you replace an actual luxury car with a vehicle that is the near-luxury baby Lexus? I cannot imagine BMW saying "lets ditch the 6-series convertible, and keep our customers happy with the 3-series convertible."
Mike is right, everyone needs top remember the SC when the 2nd generation first came out. It is now at the end of its product cycle and that is why sales are lagging. The 2nd generation GS was not selling nearly as well in 2005 as it did in 1998, yet Lexus did not pull the plug on this one. If Lexus comes out with a new SC convertible using their modern design language, it will be a success again.
Mike is right, everyone needs top remember the SC when the 2nd generation first came out. It is now at the end of its product cycle and that is why sales are lagging. The 2nd generation GS was not selling nearly as well in 2005 as it did in 1998, yet Lexus did not pull the plug on this one. If Lexus comes out with a new SC convertible using their modern design language, it will be a success again.
07-13-08, 10:11 AM
#45
Lexus Champion
I dont think its that the market is crowded as other cars have caught up to the Avalon. My mom bought a brand new 97 Avalon in 1996. At the time Olds had the aurora, Mazda the Millenia and Mitsu had the diamante. Back then if you bought a Bmw 3, Merc C or even an Audi A4 you pretty much got a very small car just for the name plate at a higher price than the Avalon. Or if you bought an american made car you had a car bigger than the Avalon but alot less youthful. The avalon was unique back then no japanese or european car could match its room for anywhere near the price. And noamerican car in that price range could match it reliability or performance and somewhat youthful image.