I just think that if an extra 3-4MPG gains can be achieved from their technology while reducing HP by say 30-40, it's worth it. 99% of drivers aren't going to notice a major difference in their day-to-day driving from 400HP to 365HP. Both are extremely fast and powerful. However, most drivers will notice that they're getting the better gas mileage. Anything over 300HP is very strong. The more important number these days in my opinion should be the MPG number, not the HP number (even with higher end cars). We already know these companies can make very powerful vehicles. But can they make them more efficient while still being just as powerful?

 

Hmmm, I guess we agree to disagree here. I just don't see how MB is making a more serious attempt than BMW in terms of fuel efficient alternatives. You might want to search on Efficient Dynamics and BMW.

 

I agee 100% with Doug. BMW and Lexus have ALWAYS had the best MPG engines around, one or the other is always tops.

MB thought process is just sell a bigger engine. The 5.5 V-8 for instance makes 382hp. The Lexus 4.6 makes 380.

That is nearly one liter smaller. Of course the two are totall opposites in regards to MPG.

 

And why would you buy a BMW 5-series if you're looking for refinement and luxury ride? BMW has always been performance over luxury so it shouldn't be held against them if they want more power for their cars (so as long as fuel economy is the same. You dont need 500hp but you want it. Just like how you dont need leather seats, navi, etc...you just want it as a personal preference.

 

People put WAY too much focus on displacement because they make the uninformed assumption that large displacement automatically equals worse gas mileage. Higher displacement is somehow seen as a Neanderthal low tech way to generate power.

Well... it can be. But it also can not be.

 

We say is OK now b/c in America, gas has been inexpensive forever. SO yeah its ok. Sales figures always look good historically, gas is cheap.
Now with gas up, we will continue to have our monthly sales report and notice trends.

It is VERY possible, V-8 sales may have a huge decline, thus proving people in this class DO care about MPG.

Caddy has stated they may drop V-8s altogether!

Lexus hybrids continue to meet sales goals, even with less cargo room and a higher base MSRP. It shows people WANT luxury AND better MPG (and a cleaner running car).

Hey, I'm all for AMG/M, 500hp/900hp cars.

There must be a time though when someone says "this is going nowhere" and orders a cease fire.

EVERYONE follow luxury carmakers. Benz/BMW are VERY influential in the car game.

I bet if THEY came with hybrids first, EVERYONE would have jumped on it. Since Lexus came with it first, people scoffed.

I would like to see the Germans LEAD here as well. Give up 50hp for more MPG.

 

Besides the Hydrogen 7 (which will probably never see the light of day in the U.S.), what is BMW doing or have planned in the short term to add more fuel efficient vehicles to their lineup? MB is coming out with a hybrid S-Class that can get 40MPG - that, I consider a serious attempt at offering a fuel efficient alternative. I don't consider a turbo-charged 400HP 4.4Liter V8 an attempt at anything, other than having the bragging rights in saying "we're the most powerful".

 

Wow, you have a problem with me saying "sheep" but you pretty much make jabs as well. Kudos.

When I have time later, I will post the S550 vs the LS 460 MPG rating.

Did I SAY all bigger engines have low MPG? No, so STOP making assumptions, stop trying to argue, read the post, take a deep breath, then post. The Corvette for example has over 6 liters and gets over 26 MPG on the highwway. That is nearly on par with say an I-4 Acura TSX.

I compared the Benz 5.5 vs the Lexus 4.6, that was the basis of me saying Benz likes going bigger.

 

So performance is nothing more than high HP numbers? What if I want excellent road feel, precise steering, leather, nav, etc etc, in addition to excellent fuel efficiency? What is BMW offering that meets those standards? A 5 series cannot perform well unless it has 400HP?

A BMW is a BMW. It's always going to perform well. But it can perform just as well with 350HP, achieving optimum fuel efficiency. I don't see the correlation between high performance and high HP numbers and/or displacement. I stand by my original post in that I just think it's becoming too excessive.

 

STALKER!!!
I am no polititian, I stand by what I said. Yes, I thought it would have 400hp, yes I am disapointed it has 342. Also the debate then was NOT about MPG, it was soley on power.

Also gas was NOT as expensive then as it was now, so yeah my tune has changed somewhat.

However, I have always promoted more MPG out of cars and applauded (in the past) BMW and Lexus for low weight and higher MPG than everyone else (not today, they continue to get heavier).

It does seem you are assuming I have an issue with it b/c its a BMW and that is not the case. BMW will be BMW, I have always said that, they will do what THEY want. THe whole independent thing.

 

Calling someone a sheep is flaming - it's name calling. Especially when you follow it up with another two sentences further emphasizing a person's lack of intelligence by questioning if they can even perform basic functions in day to day society.

Do I need to remind you the choice words you used in the last thread?

I said nothing even remotely close to flaming or insulting.

In fact my comment about dispalcement wasn't even made in your direction... or any one person's direction. It was made in general since I've seen several people in this thread become critical of the notion of increasing displacement for the purpose of increasing power. To be completely honest I didn't even see you mention anything about displacement in this thread. If you did I must have missed it.

You obviously are not one of the people I'm referring to if you get the concept of how a 2.4 liter TSX or 2.5 liter IS250 can barely beat the economy of a 6.2L Vette

 

Guys stop picking at each other and keep the post topics on the vehicle / engines, not on the people making the posts. If you feel you can't do this, exit the thread or it will be closed.

 

What's the best mpg that anyone has ever achieved with the LS460/L? There are a couple of S550 owners who have reported 30 mpg.

 

Best case scenarios are really hard to compare... maybe the person's trip was largely downhill? Maybe it had a strong tail wind? Maybe they drove 55 the whole way and drafted a trucker? Maybe something is wrong with their car.

As much as it pains me to say it the EPA's new testing method is actually a really good way to compare cars, even if it's not a very good indication of the mileage any one person will actually tend to experience... the relative differences are at least fairly accurate.

 

It still at least shows the potential of the engine to achieve great gas mileage. Although you're right that's not a good everyday indication.