V8's luxury rumble grows fainter ...
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,184
Likes: 1
From: MA
High gas prices may not affect some people, but it will definitely factor into
my next car purchase. As much as I like V8's, there is also something to
be said about not needlessly burning fuel and money.
I would love to see if they can build a bigger AWD GS450h (with a reasonable trunk)
and still have decent fuel economy.
my next car purchase. As much as I like V8's, there is also something to
be said about not needlessly burning fuel and money.
I would love to see if they can build a bigger AWD GS450h (with a reasonable trunk)
and still have decent fuel economy.
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
From: md
Get used to it, guys. We'll see some V8s and V10s still left, perhaps in large trucks and SUV's designed for towing, and in a few ultra-hi-performance sports models, but the general trend in engine size will be down. It may not be something that a lot of car enthusiasts will want to see, but the political and market realities of today's world will simply force it. A number of you have criticized Acura for not developing a V8 with RWD, but perhaps Acura was already a little ahead of the ball game.
It could temporarily drive up the price of used cars with V8s, for those determined to have them, but even then it's only a matter of time.....engines only last so long, and many owners will not want to bother having them rebuilt or with major repairs when they start burning a lot of oil or can no longer pass emissions tests.
It could temporarily drive up the price of used cars with V8s, for those determined to have them, but even then it's only a matter of time.....engines only last so long, and many owners will not want to bother having them rebuilt or with major repairs when they start burning a lot of oil or can no longer pass emissions tests.
They dropped the ball on moving to battery hybrids though, where Toyota has the lead. Kudos to Toyota for setting the bar there
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I don't think the decisions by luxury/sports car automakers to use more 6 cylinders and more fuel efficient vehicles will be because of high gas prices or consumer trends but more with increasing regulations that just will not allow them to have as many 8,10,12 cylinder vehicles and force them to sell more smaller engined lighter fuel efficient vehicles. I know higher end luxury/sports car consumers are not too concerned with fuel economy in their expensive cars nor do I think that those type of cars should be regulated as they are not popular enough to make a big impression on fuel economy. What is going to make them have to change is more stringent fuel economy standards like the 35mpg average standard that was just passed and will be implemented I think around 2020. Companies like Mercedes, Lamborgini, Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc who sell mostly larger engined, heavier, cars with pretty low mpg are going to be hit the hardest with new regulations, penalties, and taxes which is why I think you are going to see them offering 6 cylinders in the US on cars that they don't offer that option right now like the S class, A8, 7 series, 6, series, SL, CL, CLS, etc. I don't see powerful v8's,v10's,v12's dissappearing no matter how expensive gas gets because there will always be a niche market for them but I do see luxury automakers cutting back on 8 cylinders for their more popular cars (E class, 5 series, GS, M35/45, etc) to meet regulations and make 8 cylinders more of expensive special orders then having a bunch on the lots. They will have to sell alot more fuel efficient cars to make up for the unfuel efficient models/engines they have. They will focus more on getting power out of their 6 cylinders through turbo, supercharger, deisel, hybrid and making cars smaller/lighter, while making them much more fuel efficient then 8 cylinders for these new fuel economy regulations.
I don't know why so many are just stuck on killing large car engines, they are a SMALL part of sales and a minuscule part of the pollution problem.
We want to save the planet, how about a jumbo jet idling at the airport or hell, burning trash in the backyard.
This looks like another EXCUSE non-players or afterthought companies promote to not have a V-8 or bigger.
Toyota/Lexus is as environmentally friendly as they come. If Lexus has multiple V-8s
4.7
5.7
4.3
4.6
5.0
V-8 engines are NOT going anywhere.
I don't see V8 engine in luxury cars going away. A Turbo V6 can get better gas mileage but it doesn;t mean that the buyers will be getting that mileage out of the car. They will really drive the car whether it's making NA 300 V8 HP or TT 300 V6 HP.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,864
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
I agree that with today's advanced V-6 engines, V-8's are no longer needed in cars. Big trucks and SUV's, yes, but not sedans.
They'll still be nice to have but let's face it, do you really need much more than 300hp in a sedan ? Go ahead and drive a 300hp V-6 such as an Acura RL at it's potential and you'll be in jail before the next exit comes around.
I have a V-8 in my '93 SC and it has "only" 250hp. That's average or considered weak for some of today's V-6's. Hell, Camry's and Accord's now have more HP than my V-8 SC!!!
And my car is FAST!
I've already decided that my next car will be a 4-cylinder. For those that would never buy one, then you may continue sacrificing to pay for loads of gas.
They'll still be nice to have but let's face it, do you really need much more than 300hp in a sedan ? Go ahead and drive a 300hp V-6 such as an Acura RL at it's potential and you'll be in jail before the next exit comes around.
I have a V-8 in my '93 SC and it has "only" 250hp. That's average or considered weak for some of today's V-6's. Hell, Camry's and Accord's now have more HP than my V-8 SC!!!
And my car is FAST! I've already decided that my next car will be a 4-cylinder. For those that would never buy one, then you may continue sacrificing to pay for loads of gas.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,410
Likes: 249
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Today, however, we just live in a different world. It's not us here on CL trying to make V8's obsolete, but political and economic realities. In the early/mid 1970's, the new emission laws forced power cutbacks, unleaded fuel, and catalysts, but did not necessarily affect engine size. Then, a few years later, car and engine sizes DID start to shrink as CAFE gas mileage rules started to tighten. Now, after some 30 years, they are once again tightening...but this time they will affect V8's more than in the past, because in the past trucks and SUV's were not affected as much.....now they are. The new round of CAFE laws will also lose some of the loopholes that allowed automakers to keep big V8 equipped cars in production, like Ford did with the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis......Ford was able to avoid CAFE fines by outsourcing enough of the parts to keep it classified as "foreign" car and not making it part of the domestic fleet that the official mileage averages were based on. Those loopholes will now be gone....along with similiar ones. The Crown Vic will remain accessable only to police and some taxi firms....and the Town Car only to limo firms. The future of the Grand Marquis is unclear.
If you want to blame someone, you can thank Congress for passing the new round of CAFE laws, and Bush for signing it.
Last edited by mmarshall; Feb 2, 2008 at 06:45 AM.
Lead Lap
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,534
Likes: 0
From: MD
I'd also like to point out that alot of people who drive Lincolns are older and not your typical driving enthusiast. Older people tend not to drive at high speeds or accelerate quickly as Im sure you are all aware. So this argument that people will drive a TT V6 just as hard as a V8 may be true for a select few, but for the majority it will be saving fuel thanks to a smaller displacement, rather than have having an uncessary extra 2 cylinders. I think you could same the same about many STS/DTS buyers. Having a V8 at that ages is about status or prestige (unless youre buying a Vette), not about flexing one's automotive muscles.
Its not like Ford or GM is trying to take the fun away. But they are facing reality and offering more practical alternatives.
Lexus intro'd the GS460 so they can stop making the old engine for one thing and maybe they hoped it would bump up sales, but that doesn't seem to have made any difference as far as I know (especially since they detuned it
).
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,285
Likes: 43
From: NV
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I really admire honda/acura for remaining environmentally and ecologically conscious. They have consistantly maintained an ecological and efficiency oriented approach for all their consumer engines/cars. I mean, they create some of the top F1 racing engines, they could EASILY drop some high powered v8's if they so wanted.
They dropped the ball on moving to battery hybrids though, where Toyota has the lead. Kudos to Toyota for setting the bar there
They dropped the ball on moving to battery hybrids though, where Toyota has the lead. Kudos to Toyota for setting the bar there
2. If it was THAT simple, don't you think they would have at least one V-8 years ago?
3. I think Honda is going to turn it up a notch with Hydrogen/Fuel Cells/Hybrids. I think efficiency, I think Honda and they do small cars pretty much better than anyone.
Er, sales numbers? The 535i and GS350 have made the V8 versions pretty obsolete.
Lexus intro'd the GS460 so they can stop making the old engine for one thing and maybe they hoped it would bump up sales, but that doesn't seem to have made any difference as far as I know (especially since they detuned it).
Lexus intro'd the GS460 so they can stop making the old engine for one thing and maybe they hoped it would bump up sales, but that doesn't seem to have made any difference as far as I know (especially since they detuned it
).300hp V-6 or V-8, give me the V-8, 9 times out of 10.
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