I think my next car will be American
Specifically this one
All things being equal, I'd rather support the home team, especially at a time when the industry is struggling and risks becoming extinct. Cars are possibly one of the last remaining products that we still make in this country and don't import. The death of the American auto industry will have huge ramifications for this country and its people.
In this particular case though, all things aren't equal. I believe the 08 CTS is the best product in it's class. The interior is absolute gold and the bold exterior styling could only come from America. No more bland, Japanese styling for me. It'll be good to drive an American car again after a few decades away.
All things being equal, I'd rather support the home team, especially at a time when the industry is struggling and risks becoming extinct. Cars are possibly one of the last remaining products that we still make in this country and don't import. The death of the American auto industry will have huge ramifications for this country and its people.
In this particular case though, all things aren't equal. I believe the 08 CTS is the best product in it's class. The interior is absolute gold and the bold exterior styling could only come from America. No more bland, Japanese styling for me. It'll be good to drive an American car again after a few decades away.
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The home team? The American car industry? Ain't now way I'm going back American. I'm just at a different level now and would have to fall on really hard times to go back that route. Reliability was an issue but not sure if it's gotten really better over the years. I was watching MotorWeek and they had the new Chrysler Town and Country and Dodge Caravan. OK, I'm feeling that whole swivel seat and pop up table thing but dang looking at it from the outside it looks unappealing. From what I saw, it has a lot of nice interior features (non-base model) but it looks like a Chevy Venture. That's just me, it has to be looking good and somewhat stylish both in and out. It's like we can't get the full deal here at least so far with Chrysler. The new Sebring is another one that looks unattractive too. Yeah Chrysler may win over some customers with that swivel seat and get back into the game. The CTS or even the Escalade is something that I may think about but not jumping for joy. Nah I'm just playing, I can have the Escalade or the new Tahoe any day because it's styled good. But it ain't style alone that makes the car and makes a good one too.
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The CTS is made in American from mostly American parts. Most American cars have parts made from American suppliers.
American manufacturers have been forced to move abroad because of the UAW (union) plague. It's not like they chose to do that. If the UAW doesn't budge in the upcoming talks, they'll be forced to move even more manufacturing abroad.
Even now, they operate at a signifcant cost disadvantage compared to the non-Union imports. You could do a LOT with an extra $1500 per car. Infact you could do a lot more with 50 cents. So you see how hampered domestic companies are?
People talk about Japanese manufacturers building cars here. There's absolutely NO comparison between Toyota's 10 factories and GM's 54 plants. Plus, almost all engineering and most of the parts for American cars come from America. They just don't advertise it....well, because they're American.
But Toyota does play the "we're American" game better than anyone else with some very clever marketing.
If America's auto industry goes...it's hard to comprehend what might happen. It's not just the people directly employed by the car manufacturers who'll be affected, but also the HUGE number of people employed by all the suppliers.
That doesn't mean you have to compromise to buy an American. I wouldn't, that's why I drive a Japanese car right now. But when an American company comes out with a competitive product, I'm going to support it.
Furthermore, I've been less than impressed with Toyota's quality in recent years. Honda too. My mom's Accord (7th generation) was plagued with all kinds of issues.
American manufacturers have been forced to move abroad because of the UAW (union) plague. It's not like they chose to do that. If the UAW doesn't budge in the upcoming talks, they'll be forced to move even more manufacturing abroad.
Even now, they operate at a signifcant cost disadvantage compared to the non-Union imports. You could do a LOT with an extra $1500 per car. Infact you could do a lot more with 50 cents. So you see how hampered domestic companies are?
People talk about Japanese manufacturers building cars here. There's absolutely NO comparison between Toyota's 10 factories and GM's 54 plants. Plus, almost all engineering and most of the parts for American cars come from America. They just don't advertise it....well, because they're American.
But Toyota does play the "we're American" game better than anyone else with some very clever marketing.
If America's auto industry goes...it's hard to comprehend what might happen. It's not just the people directly employed by the car manufacturers who'll be affected, but also the HUGE number of people employed by all the suppliers.
That doesn't mean you have to compromise to buy an American. I wouldn't, that's why I drive a Japanese car right now. But when an American company comes out with a competitive product, I'm going to support it.
Furthermore, I've been less than impressed with Toyota's quality in recent years. Honda too. My mom's Accord (7th generation) was plagued with all kinds of issues.
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Yes. It is a global economy. I can't even find a shirt that's made in the US anymore and my golf clubs are made in China.
But I want American car companies to prosper again. People somehow think that companies like GM and Ford will always be around no matter what they do. That's not true. Domestic auto companies have to do their part in turning the ship around and changing public perception. That's easier said than done given how large these companies are and their past reputation for not so stellar reliability. But they're in the process of doing that. If they come out with superior product and the consumer doesn't bite because of a perception issue...we can kiss one of our last large industries goodbye.
But I want American car companies to prosper again. People somehow think that companies like GM and Ford will always be around no matter what they do. That's not true. Domestic auto companies have to do their part in turning the ship around and changing public perception. That's easier said than done given how large these companies are and their past reputation for not so stellar reliability. But they're in the process of doing that. If they come out with superior product and the consumer doesn't bite because of a perception issue...we can kiss one of our last large industries goodbye.
if the american auto manufacturers keep up what they are finally doing, they might have a chance... problem is, toyota and nissan are sooo far ahead, it's hard to keep up, specifically toyota...
hybrids... within 3 years, every toyota vehicle will have a hybrid option... to me, this, along with other advances, is the wave of the future of automobiles...
I think the new Cadi's are ok, I'm not sure if I would say bold... you want bold, go look at a BMW M series, a Lexus IS-F, or something along those lines - cars with fenders that just barely fit over the wheels, are low, but still ride good... wide front noses, sloped just right... headlights that are body color matched, etc...
but then again, everyones tastes are different...
I suspect my next car purchase will be American as well... the wife wants a Camaro when they are reintroduced... (so do I)
hybrids... within 3 years, every toyota vehicle will have a hybrid option... to me, this, along with other advances, is the wave of the future of automobiles...
I think the new Cadi's are ok, I'm not sure if I would say bold... you want bold, go look at a BMW M series, a Lexus IS-F, or something along those lines - cars with fenders that just barely fit over the wheels, are low, but still ride good... wide front noses, sloped just right... headlights that are body color matched, etc...
but then again, everyones tastes are different...
I suspect my next car purchase will be American as well... the wife wants a Camaro when they are reintroduced... (so do I)
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I don't think Toyota and Nissan are really that ahead (especially Nissan).
The GM two-modes are coming out real soon and you now can buy large SUVs like the Tahoe with 20+mpg in CITY driving. That is a very real savings in gasoline used.
The same two-mode hybrid units are being used by MB and BMW. The MB ML450 hybrid showcased at Frankfurt recently produces 340 HP and 354 lb-ft of torque AND delivers 30mpg!
Plus, GM is coming out with this in 2009 -
http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/
Toyota's primary advantage is the Prius. That's the heavy hitter that's doing all the "green/hybrid' damage. Honda has a pretty good hybrid unit in the Civic but Toyota has managed to steal the green perception (and sales) from Honda just because of the Prius (keep in mind that Toyota also sells several gas guzzling SUV's and trucks). Honda is the greener company by far between the two but Toyota is the one with the green perception in the public's eyes.
And as far as bold styling is concerned, I think the new BMW M3 is an eyesore (and so are the M5 and M6) and the IS-F took a good looking car and turned it in a boy-racer's wet dream. I think the regular 3 series and IS350 look much better in both cars.
The GM two-modes are coming out real soon and you now can buy large SUVs like the Tahoe with 20+mpg in CITY driving. That is a very real savings in gasoline used.
The same two-mode hybrid units are being used by MB and BMW. The MB ML450 hybrid showcased at Frankfurt recently produces 340 HP and 354 lb-ft of torque AND delivers 30mpg!
Plus, GM is coming out with this in 2009 -
http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/
Toyota's primary advantage is the Prius. That's the heavy hitter that's doing all the "green/hybrid' damage. Honda has a pretty good hybrid unit in the Civic but Toyota has managed to steal the green perception (and sales) from Honda just because of the Prius (keep in mind that Toyota also sells several gas guzzling SUV's and trucks). Honda is the greener company by far between the two but Toyota is the one with the green perception in the public's eyes.
And as far as bold styling is concerned, I think the new BMW M3 is an eyesore (and so are the M5 and M6) and the IS-F took a good looking car and turned it in a boy-racer's wet dream. I think the regular 3 series and IS350 look much better in both cars.
Last edited by rosskoss; Sep 15, 2007 at 12:56 PM.
Japanese styling is either bland, or derivative. It's the same with most Asian cars like Hyundai. You can't convince me otherwise. I say this being Asian and having lived in Asia for several years.
The styling on the CTS is BOLD with a capital B. It takes guts to come out with a car with styling like this at a time when everyone else was doing curves. The front fender alone is a work of art.
The new CTS just came out a few days ago. My dealer still doesn't have any in stock. Where did you see it?
The styling on the CTS is BOLD with a capital B. It takes guts to come out with a car with styling like this at a time when everyone else was doing curves. The front fender alone is a work of art.
The new CTS just came out a few days ago. My dealer still doesn't have any in stock. Where did you see it?
Don't forget GM openly admitting to styling generations of it's Malibu to intentionally LOOK like Camrys, in an effort to sway buyers. To each his own though, and you really can't tell me that cars like the 2nd and 3rd gen GS, SC 400 and SC 430, RX, Infiniti FX and G35, Toyota Celica and Supra, new Camry, new Civic, Prius, Element, xB, Maxima and 350Z aren't rather "original".
Really, the only bold thing that American car companies have is Cadillac and the 300/Charger/Magnum...other than that I see little to no originality. Cadillac styling is original, but again I just don't think it's bold and do feel like "art and science" has seen better days- circa 2000 with the Evoq concept. Their design language has failed to captivate and evolve since the first CTS, IMO.
It's your money though, so if you feel that the CTS is bold and American and that is where you want to throw your cash, then more power to you. Quite frankly, I think that it looks like it's going to be a very good car. It seems to me that you are a domestic fanboy at heart and have been turned away in the past few years with meager designs and shoddy quality. Both of those issues have been addressed, and now you have every reason to once again purchase a car that has been engineered, conceived, and built on American soil, by Americans. It's a great time to be a consumer
I don't think Toyota and Nissan are really that ahead (especially Nissan).
The GM two-modes are coming out real soon and you now can buy large SUVs like the Tahoe with 20+mpg in CITY driving. That is a very real savings in gasoline used.
The same two-mode hybrid units are being used by MB and BMW. The MB ML450 hybrid showcased at Frankfurt recently produces 340 HP and 354 lb-ft of torque AND delivers 30mpg!
Plus, GM is coming out with this in 2009 -
http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/
Toyota's primary advantage is the Prius. That's the heavy hitter that's doing all the "green/hybrid' damage. Honda has a pretty good hybrid unit in the Civic but Toyota has managed to steal the green perception (and sales) from Honda just because of the Prius (keep in mind that Toyota also sells several gas guzzling SUV's and trucks). Honda is the greener company by far between the two but Toyota is the one with the green perception in the public's eyes.
And as far as bold styling is concerned, I think the new BMW M3 is an eyesore (and so are the M5 and M6) and the IS-F took a good looking car and turned it in a boy-racer's wet dream. I think the regular 3 series and IS350 look much better in both cars.
The GM two-modes are coming out real soon and you now can buy large SUVs like the Tahoe with 20+mpg in CITY driving. That is a very real savings in gasoline used.
The same two-mode hybrid units are being used by MB and BMW. The MB ML450 hybrid showcased at Frankfurt recently produces 340 HP and 354 lb-ft of torque AND delivers 30mpg!
Plus, GM is coming out with this in 2009 -
http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/
Toyota's primary advantage is the Prius. That's the heavy hitter that's doing all the "green/hybrid' damage. Honda has a pretty good hybrid unit in the Civic but Toyota has managed to steal the green perception (and sales) from Honda just because of the Prius (keep in mind that Toyota also sells several gas guzzling SUV's and trucks). Honda is the greener company by far between the two but Toyota is the one with the green perception in the public's eyes.
And as far as bold styling is concerned, I think the new BMW M3 is an eyesore (and so are the M5 and M6) and the IS-F took a good looking car and turned it in a boy-racer's wet dream. I think the regular 3 series and IS350 look much better in both cars.
in 2009, rumor is, Toyota will have hybrids in even their full size trucks....
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No, Toyota HSD is not compatible with their full size trucks. But GM's Two-mode system is. That's the big difference. The GMT-900 platform (GM's full size truck platform) will be releasing hybrids in a few months. Toyota is taking the diesel route with the Tundra.
Plus, GM developed their first hybrid way back in 1967. They've always had the technology and some of the world's finest engineers - all hampered by some of the world's worst managers and beancounters.
Plus, GM developed their first hybrid way back in 1967. They've always had the technology and some of the world's finest engineers - all hampered by some of the world's worst managers and beancounters.
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Japanese styling may be rather bland, but it has continually been played over by Americans until just recently when an American revival of sorts has taken place. Chrysler is going the retro route with some cars, Ford has their new 3 bar chrome grill, and GM has nicely smoothed out it's bar/grille/headlight combo. Good looking American cars are a recent thing, IMO.
Don't forget GM openly admitting to styling generations of it's Malibu to intentionally LOOK like Camrys, in an effort to sway buyers. To each his own though, and you really can't tell me that cars like the 2nd and 3rd gen GS, SC 400 and SC 430, RX, Infiniti FX and G35, Toyota Celica and Supra, new Camry, new Civic, Prius, Element, xB, Maxima and 350Z aren't rather "original".
Don't forget GM openly admitting to styling generations of it's Malibu to intentionally LOOK like Camrys, in an effort to sway buyers. To each his own though, and you really can't tell me that cars like the 2nd and 3rd gen GS, SC 400 and SC 430, RX, Infiniti FX and G35, Toyota Celica and Supra, new Camry, new Civic, Prius, Element, xB, Maxima and 350Z aren't rather "original".
The domestics should never have followed Toyota into that bland styling routine. That was a huge mistake they made for several years. I'm glad that they're finally coming out with good looking cars again.
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Styling is completely a matter of opinion and I definitely do not find the new CTS any more "bold" than an IS or even a TL. I find it looks rather bland and akwardly proportioned. Again, this is my opinion and different people will have different opinions. I'm quite sure that the roughly 5000 people who buy an IS in the US each month do not consider the styling as being "bland" or "derivative".
Even though I'm not American, I have no problem supporting the American auto industry as it means more competition and ultimately better products for the consumer. Thing is I won't support American automakers "just because". They TRULY have to offer a better product than the competition for me to buy an American car.
In my honest opinion, the new CTS is not a better production than the competition.
Even though I'm not American, I have no problem supporting the American auto industry as it means more competition and ultimately better products for the consumer. Thing is I won't support American automakers "just because". They TRULY have to offer a better product than the competition for me to buy an American car.
In my honest opinion, the new CTS is not a better production than the competition.
No, Toyota HSD is not compatible with their full size trucks. But GM's Two-mode system is. That's the big difference. The GMT-900 platform (GM's full size truck platform) will be releasing hybrids in a few months. Toyota is taking the diesel route with the Tundra.
Plus, GM developed their first hybrid way back in 1967. They've always had the technology and some of the world's finest engineers - all hampered by some of the world's worst managers and beancounters.
Plus, GM developed their first hybrid way back in 1967. They've always had the technology and some of the world's finest engineers - all hampered by some of the world's worst managers and beancounters.
I never said GM wasn't a great company or had ****ty engineers... the company as a whole just didn't do the right thing when it should have and are now facing losses...
It doesn't matter how good your people are if management sucks... Evidently those at Toyota are good
