Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

Man fined thousands for using Vegetable Oil instead of Gasoline

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 06-14-07, 08:07 PM
  #1  
Och
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
Och's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 16,436
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 13 Posts
Default Man fined thousands for using Vegetable Oil instead of Gasoline

Driver ticketed for using biofuel
Vegetable oil sticks him with $1,000 fine

Bruce Henderson, The Charlotte Observer
Bob Teixeira decided it was time to take a stand against U.S. dependence on foreign oil.

So last fall the Charlotte musician and guitar instructor spent $1,200 to convert his 1981 diesel Mercedes to run on vegetable oil. He bought soybean oil in 5-gallon jugs at Costco, spending about 30 percent more than diesel would cost.

His reward, from a state that heavily promotes alternative fuels: a $1,000 fine last month for not paying motor fuel taxes. He has been told to expect another $1,000 fine from the federal government.

To legally use veggie oil, state officials told him, he would have to first post a $2,500 bond.

Teixeira is one of a growing number of fuel-it-yourselfers -- backyard brewers who recycle restaurant grease or make moonshine for their car tanks. They do it to save money, reduce pollution or thumb their noses at oil sheiks.

They're also caught in a web of little-known state laws that can stifle energy independence.

State Sen. Stan Bingham, R-Denton, is known around Raleigh for his diesel Volkswagen fueled by used soybean oil. The car sports a "Goodbye, OPEC" sign.

"If somebody was going to go to this much trouble to drive around in a car that uses soybean oil, they ought to be exempt" from state taxes, he said.

The state Department of Revenue, which fined Teixeira, has asked legislators to waive the $2,500 bond for small fuel users. The department also told Teixeira, after the Observer asked about his case this week, that it will compromise on his fine.

But officials say they'll keep pursuing taxes on all fuels used in highway vehicles. With its 29.9-cent a gallon gas tax, the state collects $1.2 billion each year to pay for road construction.

"With the high cost of fuel right now, the department does recognize that a lot of people are looking for relief," said Reggie Little, assistant director of the motor fuel taxes division. "We're not here to hurt the small guy, we're just trying to make sure that the playing field is level."

Alternative support

State policies firmly endorse alternative fuels.

In 2005 legislators directed state agencies to replace 20 percent of their annual petroleum use with alternatives by 2010. About 6,000 of the state's 8,500 vehicles are equipped to use ethanol. The state fleet also includes about 135 gas-electric hybrids.

Few states, however, are prepared to regulate the new fuels, says the National VegOil Board, which promotes vegetable oil fuel.

"State offices do not have the forms to appropriately and fairly deal with VegOil, nor the staff to enforce the nonexistent forms," said director Cynthia Shelton. "So either they tell people inquiring about compliance to get lost, or they make them jump a bunch of arbitrary hoops."

Outraged Illinois legislators this spring quickly waived that state's $2,500 bond requirement when an elderly man was nabbed for using waste vegetable oil.

In the mountain district of state Sen. John Snow, D-Cherokee, home-brewed ethanol was once known as moonshine. But a couple of constituents who made it for fuel have been fined for the same tax violation that got Teixeira in trouble.

Snow has introduced several bills to promote biodiesel, which under state law includes vegetable oil.

"One of the biggest problems in the state is a real lack of information for people who want to use alternative fuels," said Snow's research assistant, Jonathan Ducote. "It's just now appearing on [regulators'] radar."

Speedway sting

Teixeira's story began near Lowe's Motor Speedway on May 14. As recreational vehicles streamed in for race week, revenue investigators were checking fuel tanks of diesel RVs for illegal fuel.

The investigators spotted Teixeira's passing bumper sticker: "Powered by 100% vegetable oil."

"It was like some twist of fate that put me there," he said. "It was like I was asking for them to stop me."

Teixeira says revenue officials are just doing their jobs. But he thinks it's unfair that he was lumped with people who purposely try to avoid fuel taxes.

"Individuals who are trying to do the right thing environmentally cannot and should not continue to take this kind of financial hit," he wrote Gov. Mike Easley.

He'll pay the state fine and apply for a state fuel license.

"I'm ready to get myself legal," he said, "and start using vegetable oil again."
Och is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 08:19 PM
  #2  
flipside909
Lexus Connoisseur
 
flipside909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 19,802
Received 534 Likes on 283 Posts
Default

They're doing the earth a favor by using alternative fuels, but they get fined? So what's next. A tax on kW/Hr for electricity generated by your Hybrid motor?
flipside909 is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 08:35 PM
  #3  
Jewcano
No Sir, I Don't Like It

iTrader: (4)
 
Jewcano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Jax, FL
Posts: 8,754
Received 11 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Och
"We're not here to hurt the small guy, we're just trying to make sure that the playing field is level."
I love that. So funny

So from what i understand is even if someone doesn't partake in that particular fuel, they should still pay for it? Well i guess thats how the public school system works too. So we should be used to it by now.
Jewcano is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 11:17 PM
  #4  
GS3Tek
Moderator
Forum Moderator
iTrader: (8)
 
GS3Tek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: so cal
Posts: 12,364
Received 168 Likes on 127 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Och
"With the high cost of fuel right now, the department does recognize that a lot of people are looking for relief," said Reggie Little, assistant director of the motor fuel taxes division. "We're not here to hurt the small guy, we're just trying to make sure that the playing field is level."
Yeah, the oil industry is very thrilled about this

No surprise that the gov't wants a piece of pie in everything
GS3Tek is offline  
Old 06-14-07, 11:35 PM
  #5  
Pearlpower
Lexus Fanatic

iTrader: (2)
 
Pearlpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: California
Posts: 7,075
Likes: 0
Received 19 Likes on 15 Posts
Default

So taxpayers are paying for these revenue investigators to check on fuel usage of RV owners. Do they really have nothing more important to utilize public resources on?
Pearlpower is offline  
Old 06-15-07, 03:51 AM
  #6  
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
 
mmarshall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Posts: 91,422
Received 87 Likes on 86 Posts
Default

The question of using vegtable oil as a bio diesel fuel has come up here on CL by diesel owners....more than once. In reply, I've cautioned that the legality of this, especially without a lot of red tape, was questionable.....here is your proof.

I don't particularly care for the way that motor fuel is taxed, myself, and I agree with the writer that some of these laws discourage innovation and work against our energy independence, but like it or not, we have to deal with the law as it is (or work to get the laws changed), not the way we would like it to be.

You end up paying taxes on other alternate vehicle fuels, too, such as propane, natural gas, and alcohol, because if the state doesn't tax them directly like they do motor fuels, they get the money in other ways, such as sales taxes when you buy them. The general sales tax would also apply on vegetable oil, too, even if it is not directly taxed as a motor fuel.

And, last, just think of what motor fuel taxes run in EUROPE (even on diesel fuel, which is not taxed as highly as gasoline, and you will probably not complain much here.
mmarshall is offline  
Old 06-15-07, 05:38 AM
  #7  
JessePS
Lexus Test Driver

 
JessePS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: QC/FRANCE
Posts: 8,349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

ROFL how low can they go?!

Last edited by JessePS; 06-15-07 at 06:38 AM.
JessePS is offline  
Old 06-15-07, 06:26 AM
  #8  
Lil4X
Out of Warranty
 
Lil4X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Houston, Republic of Texas
Posts: 14,926
Received 12 Likes on 12 Posts
Default

State and Federal motor fuel taxes were originally intended to be "user fees" for building and maintaining public roads and bridges. In that sense they are fair. If you operate a boat, generator, farm machinery, or other non road-going application and you save your receipts, you can apply for a partial refund of your road taxes every year. Most states will not give a full refund, claiming a "use" tax usually for inspecting and certifying storage tanks and pumps. Check with your state's taxing authority.

It's a fairly simple process, if you can prove its use didn't rack up any "road" miles, it could be worth your while. I suppose you could count the gas you use in your lawnmower and weedwhacker, but most states may require some minimum use - say 200 gallons annually - to qualify. There are always grey areas in this refund - for example you might have a difficult time claiming a refund for a dune buggy or dirt bike if it is street legal and licensed.

One old trick was for farmers to license their pickups as "farm vehicles" (some states have special plates), to duck the taxes on their fuel. While that might be fair for combines and tractors, most taxing agencies understand that while you might use that pickup to ride your fence line, it will probably spend most of its life on public roads. If you own storage tanks and dispensers on your place, typical of farm applications, there should be little dispute over its purpose . . . just don't get caught gassing your pickup from it.

In some localities marina operators have already deducted the road tax from the fuel at the pump (usually pocketing the difference). If you purchase fuel - either gas or diesel - at the dock, check with the marina operator to see if road taxes have been paid on it - and if you are eligible for a state refund.

Large air operators used to avoid fuel taxes by simply running their ground fleet on avgas that was not taxed. That is probably a false economy today, when you consider even 100LL is EXPENSIVE. Now there is a movement afoot for owners to consider installing automotive engine conversions in their light aircraft - in order to burn cheaper auto fuels - then apply for the refund. That's kinda going the long way around to save a buck, but if it works . . .
Lil4X is offline  
Old 06-15-07, 06:26 AM
  #9  
Big Andy
Pole Position
 
Big Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,800
Received 7 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Actually, this is coming up a lot over here. People are running their diesel cars on cooking oil from the supermarket - some are even going round the fast food restaurants and collecting used oil, filtering it and then using it. It's all perfectly legal and the cars/SUVs run fine, BUT you still have to pay fuel duty tax on it to the Government. You still save money but not so much to make it attractive to me - although I do like the idea of driving around leaving a faint whiff of french fries behind.

Farmers get a break by running their vehicles on "red diesel" a fuel with a red dye in it - it has significantly lower taxes on it. However, it's illegal for road use and the penalties are severe if Customs and Excise dip your fuel tank and they find you're using it.

Last edited by Big Andy; 06-15-07 at 06:30 AM.
Big Andy is online now  
Old 06-15-07, 06:40 AM
  #10  
JessePS
Lexus Test Driver

 
JessePS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: QC/FRANCE
Posts: 8,349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Big Andy
However, it's illegal for road use and the penalties are severe if Customs and Excise dip your fuel tank and they find you're using it.
whats next they can come search your house without a warrant
JessePS is offline  
Old 06-15-07, 08:05 AM
  #11  
PhilipMSPT
Cycle Savant
iTrader: (5)
 
PhilipMSPT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In rehab...
Posts: 21,527
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Just goes to show how politicians and oil companies are making whoopie in the legislative bedroom...
PhilipMSPT is offline  
Old 06-15-07, 08:27 AM
  #12  
Big Andy
Pole Position
 
Big Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 2,800
Received 7 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by JessePS
whats next they can come search your house without a warrant
I've seen them turn up at a company and test every car in the carpark if they suspect red diesel is being used. Not only that, once you've used it once it taints your tank and it's a bugger to get rid of.
Big Andy is online now  
Old 06-15-07, 08:32 AM
  #13  
Lil4X
Out of Warranty
 
Lil4X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Houston, Republic of Texas
Posts: 14,926
Received 12 Likes on 12 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by PhilipMSPT
Just goes to show how politicians and oil companies are making whoopie in the legislative bedroom...
I don't see how oil companies have any responsibility for the way in which their product is taxed. If anything, fuel taxes are a real pain to the major oil companies - turning their dealers into tax collectors.

Now politicians on the other hand . . .

Two months ago there was a proposal in the Texas Legislature to suspend state taxes on motor fuel. Texas is currently awash in tax revenue - to the tune of 7 or 8 billion dollars - and is suffering an embarrassment of riches, always a prime target for "reform" candidates. Rather than actually DO something with the money, or investing it at interest for future use, the money was beginning to cause a panic in the state house. What if somebody knew we had all this cash? How can we keep going back to the voters for more taxes when we have THIS just sitting in the bank?

In a cynical bid for votes, our legislators actually considered a bill to suspend gas taxes for 90 days to "help our citizens in this time of high-cost gasoline". HAH! They tabled the bill with only days to go in the legislative session and the session timed out, stranding the bill. Now the Texas legislature only meets every two years, so in next year's election, look for our politicians to weep publicly over their foiled attempt to effectively cut gas prices over 20 cents per gallon "for the little guy". Naturally, it doesn't matter which party's ticket the legislator is running on, it's going to be the other party's fault.

Slick?
Lil4X is offline  
Old 06-15-07, 08:47 AM
  #14  
leedogg
Lead Lap
 
leedogg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: md
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Theres some misconception here. The state needs to find another way to tax a vehicle for annual road use other than a fuel tax.
leedogg is offline  
Old 06-15-07, 10:38 AM
  #15  
Lil4X
Out of Warranty
 
Lil4X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Houston, Republic of Texas
Posts: 14,926
Received 12 Likes on 12 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by leedogg
Theres some misconception here. The state needs to find another way to tax a vehicle for annual road use other than a fuel tax.
They do. We call it a license plate and an inspection sticker.

Fuel tax harvests revenue proportional to actual use of the roadway because it relates directly to the number of miles driven. It has the additional benefit of offering the drivers of more economical vehicles a considerable "tax break". What could be more fair than that?

Last edited by Lil4X; 06-15-07 at 11:08 AM.
Lil4X is offline  



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:04 PM.