BMW: Audi is not a threat
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,695
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
I have driven both BMW and Audi AWD vehlcles and can find few practical differences between the two of them, handling-wise, except for the admittedly superb BMW steering and road-feel. BMW, arguably, does power steering better than any other manufacturer in the U.S. market, whether RWD or AWD.
Last edited by mmarshall; Jun 14, 2007 at 06:02 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 471
Likes: 60
From: ON
There was a recent article on why audi's and bmw's were so popular in their home markets, and why there sales there is so much more then over here.
http://www.autospies.com/news/If-Fle...e-Shape-14191/
CL Community Team
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 17,338
Likes: 213
From: Miami, Florida
http://mx.autos.yahoo.com/newcars/au...e_overview.php
http://mx.autos.yahoo.com/newcars/bmw/make_overview.php
Pole Position
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,816
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From: UK
If Audi replicate their European success in the US then BMW will be worried. Where there were two luxury marques competing there are now 3 with BMW, Mercedes and Audi going head to head. The UK is now Audi's biggest market outside of Germany and with dealerships expanding and relocating to accommodate an ever increasing product range this can only continue.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,695
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Well, First, "underpowered" is a relative term. Second, it's hard to argue that anything with 400 HP+ / torque, like some of the Audi S and RS models are underpowered. Third, the power-to-weight ratio is not the only determinant of what makes a car a good value. For instance, the AWD that comes with many Audis, and the superb shifting characteristics of the DSG transmission also, IMO, add to their value quotient.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,378
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From: CA
For the price of the A4, the 335i/IS350/G35 blow it away. The S4 about 10k more than a 335i. The RS4 is much more expensive than the new M3 and probably more than the ISF will be. Audi needs to step up the HP in many of their models, the A4 most notably.
RWD is fine ( even ideal ) in some circumstances, like dry-weather cornering, but for everyday driving in versatile conditions, I'd rather have an AWD product any day.
I have driven both BMW and Audi AWD vehlcles and can find few practical differences between the two of them, handling-wise, except for the admittedly superb BMW steering and road-feel. BMW, arguably, does power steering better than any other manufacturer in the U.S. market, whether RWD or AWD.
I have driven both BMW and Audi AWD vehlcles and can find few practical differences between the two of them, handling-wise, except for the admittedly superb BMW steering and road-feel. BMW, arguably, does power steering better than any other manufacturer in the U.S. market, whether RWD or AWD.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,695
Likes: 290
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Gas mileage aside, I'm still sold on AWD products, particularly for lousy weather. The extra traction, IMO, is well worth the mileage and power penalty.
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If you drive in snow or maybe even heavy rain very often, then yeah, it's probably not a bad idea. (Or if you do a lot of off-roading or rally racing, heh). But for the rest of us, it's not really worth it.
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Lexus Champion
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,474
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From: Tennessee
Just for example, the Audi A4's rates currently range from 60% for 24 months and 30k miles, with a .00010 MF, and 66% for the same terms with a .00180MF.
The residual sounds terrible on the first term, but the money factor actually more than makes up for it. The 66% residual on the second term sounds reasonable, and the .00180MF is pretty normal for a lease, but in the end your payment on the second set of terms is actually just a little bit higher. Not to mention if you do want to buy the car at the end of the term, you have to pay 10% more for the care than you would with the first terms.
It just goes to show that you can't always just look at residual values.
Granted, Lexus has a habit of having both low residuals and high money factors.
Generally the best rates can be had from BMW and Infiniti, though.
Thread Starter
CL Community Team
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From: Canada
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: WA
Heck ya! Stick it to BMW and let BMW stick their heads in the sand. Go Audi!