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Germany cracks down on aftermarket performance ECUs

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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 12:31 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by nthach
They don't use removable EEPROMs on ECUs now. It's all soldered on ball-grid arrays or in plastic carriers that need tools to pull them. Most of the stuff made by GIAC, RennTech, Dinan, and Techtonics are just .bin files that are flashed onto the ECU's EEPROM - just like flashing your computer's BIOS with Phoenix's flash tool.

Only way they can catch this is by comparing checksums and CRC data.
I believe the newest ones are piggyback style systems that ride on top of the existing one.

I also believe that the computer stores the max boost, max rpm, etc. and that is readily available to the dealer when they tie into your car.
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Old Apr 15, 2007 | 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by doug_999
I believe the newest ones are piggyback style systems that ride on top of the existing one.

I also believe that the computer stores the max boost, max rpm, etc. and that is readily available to the dealer when they tie into your car.
All the stuff I've seen for MKIV-MKV VWs are all flash-based. And the 2nd part is true, it's a part of the OBD-II protocol to have a freeze-frame of data, since it is useful when the ECU throws an CEL, or in the case of Ford/GM/DCX as "black box" in the event of a collision and they need to know what happened prior to impact.
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Old Apr 16, 2007 | 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by doug_999
OT Paul, but here in IL they just decided to do away with emissions testing on cars older than 1996. Nice eh?
That's because they want to lower costs by standardizing on the OBD test. The data on the OBD bus can read incorrectly (o2 simulators anyone).

The german move is good only if you can push on enforcement. I've found enforcement pretty poor in the U.S. (How many here know a way to skirt CARB if needed?) so any similar law here would be simply be pandering to the public and special interests. If we really cared about emissions we'd target those 100's of cars and trucks in most big cities (you know the ones I'm talking about. The spewers!) that cause the majority of the damage. Of course that probably wouldn't employ as many people and it's harder to explain how this type of targeting is better to the average Joe.
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Old Apr 16, 2007 | 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Johnson
That's because they want to lower costs by standardizing on the OBD test. The data on the OBD bus can read incorrectly (o2 simulators anyone).
Yep, we now ask the car to tell us how it is running. However, removing the tail pipe emissions testing for the older cars is a terrible terrible idea IMHO.
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Old Apr 16, 2007 | 11:26 AM
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As Doug mentioned, more and more tuners are moving to piggyback style devices, like the XEDE. These modify the signal into the ECU, but not the ECU itself.
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Old Apr 16, 2007 | 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by picus
As Doug mentioned, more and more tuners are moving to piggyback style devices, like the XEDE. These modify the signal into the ECU, but not the ECU itself.
Is it because BMW is now starting to check the checksums on the new DME ECUs for aftermarket firmware?
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Old Apr 16, 2007 | 02:02 PM
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That and the fact that they have one very obvious advantage: they won't get overwritten and can be removed in ~10 minutes. I believe a complete ECU reflash has some advantages too, since you generally have more control that way...
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Old Apr 16, 2007 | 02:22 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by doug_999
OT Paul, but here in IL they just decided to do away with emissions testing on cars older than 1996. Nice eh?
What was the reasoning behind that?

Some possibilities:

- They figure cars more than 10 yrs old will fail anyway
- They figure people driving cars 10 yrs old or more are hurt by having to pay for tests every year
- ???

In FL there's no emissions testing by the way.
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Old Apr 16, 2007 | 03:12 PM
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For a moment, I though it said German cracks Toyota/Lexus ECU...
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Old Apr 16, 2007 | 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by doug_999
OT Paul, but here in IL they just decided to do away with emissions testing on cars older than 1996. Nice eh?
This was partially explained in previous posts as an OBD issue. American-market vehicles built before 1996, by Federal law, did not have the more advanced OBD ( On-Board-Diagnostic) II system....only the less sophisticated OBD-I system that did not record as many different malfunction codes. The less-sophisticated OBD-I system may not be compatatible with new testing equipment they are using in IL.
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Old Apr 16, 2007 | 05:58 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
This was partially explained in previous posts as an OBD issue. American-market vehicles built before 1996, by Federal law, did not have the more advanced OBD ( On-Board-Diagnostic) II system....only the less sophisticated OBD-I system that did not record as many different malfunction codes. The less-sophisticated OBD-I system may not be compatatible with new testing equipment they are using in IL.
Its all about cost savings. You get rid of the expensive testing equipment required for tail pipe emissions testing (treadmill type stuff, etc... not sure what it is called).
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Old Apr 16, 2007 | 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by doug_999
Its all about cost savings. You get rid of the expensive testing equipment required for tail pipe emissions testing (treadmill type stuff, etc... not sure what it is called).
The tail-pipe sniffer is relatively cheap and simple. It is the big, heavy, complex treadmill and all the equipment needed to power it that costs the real money...and uses the energy. And, of course, AWD vehicles with a center differential can't use single treadmills....they require even more complex double-ones for both the front and rear axles. Most places, of course, don't have the double-treadmills, so AWD vehicles are exempt from single-treadmill tests and just get the tail-pipe sniffers instead.
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Old Apr 16, 2007 | 07:03 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
The tail-pipe sniffer is relatively cheap and simple. It is the big, heavy, complex treadmill and all the equipment needed to power it that costs the real money...and uses the energy. And, of course, AWD vehicles with a center differential can't use single treadmills....they require even more complex double-ones for both the front and rear axles. Most places, of course, don't have the double-treadmills, so AWD vehicles are exempt from single-treadmill tests and just get the tail-pipe sniffers instead.
Worse, when you have someone who claims their car was ruined by the "treadmill", you have even more expenses. The fact is, the new test is quick and painless - plug into the car, check for converter, fuel pipe restictor, etc. and you are done - 5 minutes tops. The other way can easily be 10-15 minutes per car.
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Old Apr 16, 2007 | 09:33 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Lexmex
For a moment, I though it said German cracks Toyota/Lexus ECU...
Good luck, Denso is tight-lipped over their ECU code. The reason why it's so easy to find stuff for Ford/GM/DCX and German cars is that the Americans heavily base their ECUs off Bosch or Siemens designs, and the tuning companies probably have a few ex-Bosch or Siemens EEs. Hondas, Nissans, and Toyotas are a different story, although you can use Hondata to play around with a Honda ECU...
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Old Apr 17, 2007 | 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by doug_999
Worse, when you have someone who claims their car was ruined by the "treadmill", you have even more expenses. The fact is, the new test is quick and painless - plug into the car, check for converter, fuel pipe restictor, etc. and you are done - 5 minutes tops. The other way can easily be 10-15 minutes per car.

For a properly done test, you also have to inspect the exhaust system for holes and leaks. if you have enough rust to go clear through the metal, that is usually enough to fail.
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