I think you are missing the point, though. The point of this thread was not so much to compare Toyota/Lexus plastic interiors with GM's, but to note Toyota's downward slide recently and to compare their present products with their former products.
Nowhere, IMO, is this more apparent than in the 2007 Lexus ES. The interior of the new ES, quality-wise, IMO, is a joke compared to the superb 2002-2006 models, anyway you look at it......quality of wood trim, amount of wood trim, quality of plastics, panel gaps, freedom from squeaks and rattles, etc..... The new ES may have glitz and flash inside but UNDER that surface coat of glitz it's just not the same car anymore. And some of the creaks and squeaks inside come from the ( unnecessary ) switch from 60 to 55-series tires and a stiffer suspension giving a firmer ride and transmitting road irreguarlties more to the interior.

In fact, in church this morning a 2002 ES owner asked me about the new ES and what I thought of it.....I advised her to keep her old one.

 

I know you prefer a softer ride for the ES, but what has this to do with quality ?

... & I personally will take the ES350 over the ES300/330 on better looks & more power plus other new features, although I will never actually be in the market for either.

I have driven the old ES300/330 quite a few times as loaners when I took my Lexus in for maintainence, & I also drove the new ES350 recently as a loaner. I agree the plastics on the dash & doors are the same as those on the 3IS, which seems harder & not as nice as the previous ES (amount of wood trim is a matter of taste in design though, less wood doesn't mean less quality as pointed out), but overall I still like the new ES350 better compared with the old.

 

Well, compare the solidness of today's Camry with the superb 1992-1996 Camry of 10 years ago and you'll START believing it.

Now, don't get me wrong. The Camry is still a good ( even great ) car in many ways...and it now offers a Hybrid version that the 3rd-generation model didn't. But you cannot compare the interior quality of the new ones with the superb ones of 10 years ago. The general slide, IMO, started with the 1997 4th-generation model, when the body sheet metal and interior materials started to deteriorate. The versatile but rather frumpy-looking Camry wagon was also dropped in 1997....a mistake, IMO.

 

No, Andrew, you are correct that suspension stiffness and tire profile does not DIRECTLY have anything to do with interior materials or quality, but in general, everything else equal, a more stiffly-sprung and stiffer-riding car is going to transmit more road harshness to the dash and cabin, speeding up the onset of squeaks and rattles in a brand-new car and accentuating any ones that are ALREADY there from poor assembly or poor material quality.

Now, that, of course, does not mean that a softly-sprung car will NOT develop rattles and squeaks either. Perfect example: the very softly-sprung and softly-tired Cadillac DeVilles of the 80's and 90's that were so poorly assembled with sub-par materials all through the cabin. They became rattle-and-squeak machines almost overnight despite having Cream-of-Wheat suspensions....a real shame considering their otherwise ultra-quiet rides.

 

my dad has a 1993 toyota camry LE V6 and the interior is holding up pretty well. Only problem we have is the ocassional check engine light, but that's been fixed already.

I can't same the same for the previous gen camry though. The buttons and AC control panel feels cheap, and it didn't feel as comfortable. The previous camry is my favorite camry of the bunch though, but it just didn't feel as great.

Althought I do not have experiences with the new RX, many people have said the 1st gen RX are a bit higher quality than the 2nd gen. The LS-series is probably the only Lexus left that carries on the tradition of high quality standard. I dont think I've seen an LS that goes downhill (quality).

 

heh, before they used loads of thick, cheap looking plastic. Now it they use thinner but softer plastics.

You cant please them all, but I can tell you right now that general agreement between European newspapers is that Toyota's have highest quality interior in class, while 10 years ago, cheap plastics used in interiors was #1 complaint.

 

Europe? Can't comment on that...Toyota sells models in Europe I haven't seen or reviewed. My comments refer to U.S. market models, and specifically the Camry.

However, I want to make clear that that does not refer to ALL Toyota models. Today's American-market Corolla, for example, has a FAR better interior than 10 years ago...especially with the LX's wood-trimmed console......and IMO is the finest Corolla ever built. I wouldn't mind owning and driving one myself......just wish they would bring the overseas AWD All-Trac version here. I hope that Toyota basically leaves it alone and doesn't mess with it too much in the next redesign.


But you are correct that with most Toyota products, the interior materials today, regardless of how they LOOK, are in fact much thinner than 10 years ago.....the Corolla is one of the few exceptions.

 

mmarshall! Consider this: All of the material in ANY car right now is probably same if not expensive than 10-15 years ago. Also, the durability of these materials are far better than the older ones too. Now we are in a "Trendy" culture and who is going to want to see the SAME kind of material usage for the past 20 years....! Cars evolve, materials evolve, people's perceptions change. If they didn't change it than it would be like having the same ****** forever.

I was probably 10 yrs old when my dad had the first gen camry and it was a great car! But as far as I remember, the material in the inside WAS plastic and rubber (i.e center console, buttons, shifter, hand break, arm-rest, etc)....

Oh and also, I see all these people stating that however many cars were recalled and what not. But, do they know EXACTLY the purpose for the recalls? Maybe a loose bolt on the seat-belt counts as a quality issue?

 

In Toyota's defense, they released a lot of new vehicles recently which could attribute to the higher numbers as of late.
Camry, Yaris, RAV4, 4Runner, Tacoma, IS, ES, GS and the LS and Tundra soon.

 

So has Ford, GM, Nissan, Mazda, and many other companys.

 

yes!@#$%^&*()

 

so what you guys are saying is my 01 GS430 with 35k miles is better than an 06 GS430 with 35k miles, right? I'll buy that.

 

I agree that recalls can sometimes get out of hand for trivial reasons, but loose bolts in the seat-belt mechanisms are anything BUT trivial. Seat and shoulder belts are the single most important safety feature on the car short of the actual driver him or herself. The seat/shoulder belt is the primary restraining mechanism, NOT the air bags.

Now as far as the rest of your comments, what you say has some merit, and I am not against automotive change if it is done for a good reason, but there is also an old and wise saying..." if it ain't broke, don't fix it. " In my opinion, most of the Toyota / Lexus vehicles of 10 years ago WEREN'T broke, especially in interior quality, and there was no need to " fix " them....yet Toyota did anyway.
I simply disagee with your statement that today's Toyota interior materials are necessarily better than they were 10 years ago.....I look at and drive a lot of cars, and have been driving both new and used cars for almost 40 years.

Now....some of today's cars DO have more durable and better-made materials
inside than years ago......Hyundais, Kias, Suzukis, the Honda Civic, the Acura RL, and Toyota Corolla are probably the best examples.

 

I dont wanna make this thread 5+ pages long due to the argument, but just one last point to your wise quote.....

If you don't fixed anything, than we wouldn't be driving a Toyota, Lexus, or ANY car for that matter and society would not have advanced this much....change is always good for the better and that's what most car companies are doing.

 

I go to the dealership a few times a year, and of course sit in a few of the showroom cars....then look at the sticker price, then sit in the cars again and honestly, I would rather modify my 1995 Lexus and have something unique rather than pay 450-700 a month (or god knows how much people pay for new cars now!) to have a cheesy interior.

I think that's it's like anything else, Lexus wants to sell more cars to more people at a greater margin per car, so they must give on something, to each thier own, but I think I'm sold on having an older car, and a newer house, rather than an apartment and a new car.

It's too bad that Lexus, GM, and others just don't offer upgrades for those who want a REAL interior vs those who just want the looks of a new car...