Ok, fair enough...

I sincerly doubt that most people buy them for the name. People I know who have driven them tend to buy them after being blown away by the test drive. I'm sure some people buy them for the name, but not most.

I personally believe they have great engineering behind them. The Germans build a car that is very tight and solid. I notice this in every German car I'm in. I think Toyota has great engineers too - but they focus on different buyer priorities. Point is, I personally don't think most BMW owners think the Germans are better engineers. However you could say something to the effect of "most people buy them for the German engineering". Just not superior.

I think BMWs tend to be quick for their power/weight ratio for a lot of reasons. High stall speed torque converters, different rearends, and great engine tuning. I honestly don't think they are underrated. But I honestly don't know if the new SAE standards allow an engine maker to underrate - can they?

Either way, BMW owners do look at power - and they get miffed when MB comes out with a 382HP monster and Lexus comes out with a 380HP beast. I believe this causes all owners in this segment to go check out the competition. But I don't think power alone (even if reported correctly) would change most people's buying habits - I think they buy the car they want/like.

 

This is a very accurate post.

Power alone isnt all it takes to win buyers over. The GS400 is a great example of this because many people and magazines still preferred the less powerful 540 because of driving dynamics. BMW has a tiny tiny amount of consumers who purchase them on the name alone, they are truly superior driving machines when compared to lexus or mercedes.

The area in which lexus dominates BMW and wins buyers over is in reliability. They have improved the vehicles and closed the gap on bimmers, but they still are not nearly as good IMO.

 

I would disagree somewhat. Every time I see someone driving a 325i with premium package, no sport package, and with the slusho-posi-incredi-tronic transmission, I think "badge buyer". And I see that car, with that set of options, the most often (in fact, that's pretty much the only car that BMW dealers will stock). They don't care about how the car feels. They just want that spinning propeller roundel on the front hood. I think BMW and Lexus have more badge buyers than, probably, all other car makes combined.

 

C'mon yall, we know a large amount of owners buy not just BMWs but Benz and Lexus on name alone. Those 3 brands have done a sensational job of having such a strong BRAND, people are happy owning ANY model.

I've met countless owners just happy to have a base or even a loaded BMW/Benz/Lexus JUST BECAUSE. They don't have a car enthusiast bone in their body (men and women).

 

Since when do you have to be a car enthusiast to buy a car for something other than brand name?

The 325 is a great car. They drive very nicely and should never be dismissed because they are the least expensive model. Many people cannot afford the M5 or some of the other higher models so the 325 is an alternative. I think they are nicer to drive than an IS250 still, but that is just me.

 

That was not my point My point is a large share of buyers buy BMW/Lexus/Benz on NAME RECOGNITION alone. Look at Audi. Fantastic cars and in America, they are losing money. THey have no brand here. People don't buy them b/c they are an Audi. People have to truly be convinced to buy the brand.

I know salespeople for BMW/Benz/Lexus and now sales managers. They KEEP the same salesmen for YEARS. These guys always say they really don't have to sell ANYTHING, the car and brand sells itself. People walk in, point and walk out.

The vast minority of buyers are car enthusiasts. If enthusiasts controled the market, SUVs would not be 53% of auto sales and manuals would not almost cease to exist.

 

I still disagree. People do not buy BMW/Lexus/Mercedes on name recognition alone. I know over half the salesmen at the local BMW dealership and people dont just line up to buy cars without test drives or inspection. Typically most buyers are shopping between the three brands, not because of just name alone, but because they are all the biggest makers of luxury cars. It takes a hell of a lot more than just a name to sell large quanitities of cars.

BMW makes cars that drive like nothing else and they build the product on a very high quality level, which is not just name recognition. Granted, it might be what you associate with that name, but in the end it comes down to the vehicle and not the badge on the front of it.

Audi is failing in America because they got away with making sub-par cars for so many years, and people are realizing this. Electrical issues, engine problems, and many other things affecting reliability have plagued their entire line up. Because of this, audi has lost sales, and at one point they were regarded equally among the luxury car makers.

 

You can still disagree, you are still in error
BMW, yes, I am sure that 1 series is not about name recognition. I am sure 159hp 520s in Europe and previously 184hp 525s (E60) are not about name recognition.

I am not knocking it at all, I LIKE name recognition. If you truly think the majority of buyers actually can speak about their car, you are wrong.

Its not just cars. I don't know much about shoes, I like Mezlan and Allen Edmonds. I don't know much about Cameras, I like Canon. I don't know much about hotels, I will chose the Intercontinental or Embassy Suites over Motel 4...

Most people DO NOT HAVE EXTENSIVE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE PRODUCT THEY WILL BUY. They trust the BRAND.

It is literally basic business 101......

BRANDING. People buy popular brands. Period.

Now there maybe some brands (BMW for instance) where it attracts MORE enthusiasts than others. However, the majority can't even tell me what the peak hp or torque is.

Did you read my thread about the new 650 owner who told me he hits a button (Pointing at I-drive) and he gets 500hp.....

Yeah, he is an enthusiast.

 

Hell look at BOSE. I thought Bose was THE stereo brand until I read here and on other forums and realized their MARKETING was outstanding but the products were average at best.

If I didn't read, I would have swore Bose was THE BRAND to have.

Branding.......

 

So in your mind, someone must be buying a car out of pure name recognition if they cannot spout of the hp or torque of the top of their head? Uh, no, and I said nothing about this in my previous post.

I think you need to ask yourself why certain brands are popular. BMW is not popular because they have a little neat logo and they are cute to look at, its because over a substantial period of time they have seperated themselves from everyone by making superior driving machines. People, on average, do not whip out their check books to buy one unless they have driven it and looked over the vehicle. THEY BUY THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE NICE.

My point is this: Name recognition only goes so far, but in the end it is the product that has to back up the name.

You mentioned BOSE. How many people do you think went out and blindly purchased them without comparing them to anything else? Im sure a tiny percentage of buyers do, but most people shop around.

And to your shoes, do you buy them because of the logo on the side, or because of the style and comfort?

 

Absolutely not true.

 

This is where I disagree. Im sure there are a lot of badge buyers, but there are a lot of 325 buyers that buy for the driving dynamics alone. I myself had a 325 with an automatic and no sports package. Was I a badge buyer? Well, at that time I also had an Acura Legend 6-Speed Coupe with almost every mod available on it. It handled wonderfully. I bought the 325 off my brother in law because one test drive in it and the driving dynamics was better than my fully modded out Legend Coupe. It was just more fun to drive. At the same time I had my Acura NSX. Obviously the 325 came nowhere near the NSX in driving dynamics, but I threw that in to show I'm no badge buyer and very much a car enthusiasts.

I agree with those that say most of the BMW drivers (In any BMW) bought them because of the drive. I will agree that the badge may get them into the showroom, but the drive sells the car. Most of the BMW owners I know (Even those that lease 325s) always comment on the steering feel and drive. Even the women/girls. A lot of them ask me about Lexus, but always ask how the steering feel compares to the BMW. That tells be a lot of buyers simply like the way the BMW feels when they drive it even in day to day traffic.

Currently I only have Lexus vehicles, but I'm seriously looking at the 335i Coupe. The BMW driving dynamics is something I miss and Lexus doesn't have anything that matches it. Infiniti IMHO is the closest of the Japanese brands but still very different.

 

I think that people do buy a product for the name alone - not just Lexus/BMW/MB, but Chevy, Ford, Dodge. For the longest time Ford had a bunch of cars in the top 10 of sales. This mystified me as they were crap in my mind. But I'm sure there were lots of "Ford" people who just bought them cause they were Fords.

Where I disagree is saying that all 325 owners with slushboxes bought on brand alone. My personal experience with friends and co-workers who have this car bought it cause of the way it drove. They normally compared it to the TL (IS250/350 was not out yet) and the 325 while having much less features, typically won them over in because of the way it drove.

 

Wait, so the IS is getting a manual?
Where is the source for this?

 

Not really. They bought them because of all the incentives Ford offered and all those "Employee Price" plans advertised everywhere.