videcormeum

I don't know - my friend (who used to post on this board as AdrianXT) had his parents' GS in the shop a few months ago and had a loaner 2005 ES; one of the chrome trim pieces along the driver's front door window was falling off. Either Lexus used crappy adhesive or it's a build issue with those cars (or it was a one-of problem ... which I doubt at this point). Also, on the inside of the door near the hinge there was a fairly large paint bubble.

Like I said before - it's my opinion that they're getting sloppy all over the place. And I think I've seen enough to think so.

M.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

I agree. My biggest complaint is the aluminum surround around the center stack - I think it looks cheap.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

mmarshall - you mentioned the dash squeaks in the ES during your test drive. While you didn't experience it with a 3GS, many owners are complaining about them also.

I think Lexus is walking a balancing act or trying to keep costs under control while making the interior and chassis stiff enough to not have audible creaks and squeaks above the extremely quiet drivetrains.

INHOCJP

The loaner ES350 I had last weekend was rock solid. No rattles or creaks. However, it only had 10 miles on the odometer when I left the dealership.

I found the ES350 quite enjoyable to drive. Although I missed the power of my 430, the new ES is certainly no slouch. Gas mielage was quite good. In the 300 miles I drove the car, I averaged about 26 MPG.

Exterior wise, the new ES is a huge improvement over the previous gen IMHO. I think Lexus did a great job with the redesign. The family resemblance is definitely apparent with the new GS , IS and ES. L-Finesse at work I guess.

The steering wheel controls are a bit different than my GS. While my GS controls are hard plastic, the ES controls have a soft covering over them. Not better or worse, just different. The guage cluster in the ES is quite nice. It took me a while to get used to the 2-pod layout, but the guages are beautiful at night.

And as others have noted before, the gen 5 nav display is simply awesome. Comparing it to the gen 4 display is like comparing HDTV to regular stardard definition broadcasts. Quite honestly, if I had plans of keeping my GS long-term, I'd be pissed.

mmarshall

The ES350's drivetrain was noticeably quieter than the IS250 AWD I reviewed several weeks ago...not surprising whan you consider the difference in the two cars' marketing. The IS, being a sports sedan, is expected to have a noisier exhaust.
I agree that there does seem to be some cheapening of the newer Lexus' interiors despite the flash and glitz. The interior of my 2001 Lexus IS300, for example, did not look very " Lexus-like " inside, but it was assembled like a Swiss watch....and the chrome ball shifter was like a rock. I don't see quite that same level of fit-and-finish inside on some of the newer cars.

Toyota / Lexus may be cutting some design and assembly costs in order to make the record profits they have experienced lately and in their bid to overtake GM as king of the auto industry.

Yet other evidence......such as the obscenely expensive and complex 8-speed transmission in the new LS460 ( another new Lexus I plan to review ) may suggest just the opposite.

spwolf

What I am seeing at Toyota side is new cars being built better than before. In both most recent cases - new Yaris and new Rav4, fit and finish is substantially better, as well as materials used.

Some people are not used to soft plastics, and might preffer hard as the rock / solid feel to it, but I am definetly not one of them.

mmarshall

Though Saturn had a good idea with the plastic body panels, the main problem today is that too many parts are being made out of plastic that should be made out of metal. This practice actually started in the 1970's and has been accelerating ever since. With the cars I grew up with it was rare to find a plastic part anywhere until the late 60's, when they started to be used in things like window crank handles and steering wheel spokes.....though to be honest, some metal parts were not foolproof either......corrosion was a problem with some exterior metal parts back then too.

Let's get back on topic, though...the new ES.

adidosc

great review! i always love reading a good write up.

on a different note, you did say LS and GS... may want to edit your original post.

mmarshall

Thanks ....if I did, that was a typo. I meant GS and IS. I'll correct it.

mmarshall

Yes...as I said in the closing statement of my original post, there would be people who like this new car as well as dislike it. I myself think the front end styling and the super-smooth, quiet, powertrain are both major improvements...the previous headlights were awful. The dash creaks and rattles in my test car may have been an isolated case....your car obviously did not have them.

However, I am not impressed at all with the attempt by Lexus to try and move this car up the sport-sedan ladder a couple of notches with the new lower-profile tires and slightly firmer underpinnings. The world is FULL of sport sedans....even with some sister Lexus vehicles like the IS and GS.....and IMO we don't NEED any more. There are very, VERY few cars left on the market that are really aimed toward comfort and a soft ride any more.....the previous ES was one of the very last remaining. Even Buick and Cadillac have stiffened up most of their latest models....and the Lincoln Town Car will soon be discontinued for the new MKS.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Maybe it's more my perception than reality, but the 3GS interior I experienced seemed to have significantly harder plastic surfaces than the 2GS I had.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Well they want to be very competitive too. They're striving to be first on product, price/value and service, usually a recipe for disaster (trying to do all 3), but they're managing it well. Clearly they continue to strive (and succeed) to have the best dealer network service bar none. They strive for excellent product, although not necessarily best in class if price is no object, so their 'edge' on BMW and MB in particular is often price/value rather than straight up product comparison (as magazine comparisons often show). Lexus' customer base has been pretty conservative overall, wanting refined, reliable, and comfortable luxury vehicles. But as they keep adding often expensive features they have to manage cost in other ways so the MSRP doens't skyrocket.

Well the LS is the flagship and likely to cost TWICE what an ES does, so they can afford a couple more cogs.

INHOCJP

Actually there are leather inserts.

Hard to see, especially on a dark interior, but it's there. Maybe it's fake leather, but there's an insert and it's definitely not made of plastic.

LexFather

Yes, the 3GS has leather inserts and more leather than the 2GS, its just not ruffled like the 2GS.

encore888

Insightful review, I think it pinpoints the New ES well...I do think Lexus was very deliberate this time about making the car at a certain level vis a vis New GS LS IS...

A rumor comes to mind...