Well, like I said in the April Sales thread above I really dont see why the new ES wont pull customers away from the GS. IMO its a legit alternative. The entire "because the GS is sporty and the ES is luxurious so people wont cross shop" doesnt work for me in this case. The ES offers basically the same features(in some cases more or less), same interior space, more trunk space, and both have really great designs(although that is highly subjective). The price for a loaded up ES with all the bells and whistles is about 3-4K more expensive than a base GS300 or about the same price with options minus Navi/ML. The ES will also be readily available compared to the GS. The fact that we already have undecisive people(even on this board) cross shopping the IS and GS further lets me know that there will be comparisons between the GS and IS. Its inevitable that these cars will be cross shopped especially when they share the same dealership space.

A person that is looking for a 40-45K Lexus has tons of choices(which by the way is the average selling price for Lexus models). A choice of two fully loaded IS's or ES's or a lightly optioned GS. If I was basing my decision on price for features(which I am sure TONS of customers do) I wouldnt even think about the GS. Hence IS/ES sales will be eating into GS sales.

 

^^
Agreed, to an extent...I sometimes wonder if the ES market itself has changed, I remember that Lexus chart showing how the entry-level market is moving towards Sport over Luxury. In that chart, it seemed like either a) the ES is being left behind or b) everyone is running away from the ES .

If the 'sporty image' idea holds, then the GS/IS market should stand on its own...but already the GS is at low volume pending the GS 350. Perhaps that can be inferred not only as a wait for the new model (and associated depreciation, etc.), but also a preemptive decision to 'clear the way' for the ES 350. After all, the 3.5L engine in the New ES vs. the 3.0L New GS...

But the ES also has been its own sales phenomenon, leading the Lexus lineup for years and now its #1 best sedan seller.

However, for its price range I can't help but wonder whether the ES is more IS-competitive as both are 'entry-level' luxury. I know for myself, personally, if I were to consider a new Lexus it'd be a contest between the IS and ES for me...

IMO the GS needs to have additional distinctive details to elevate it above the IS/ES...a RSES, or more luxe features...

 

thought u could get a RSES in the GS, not aftermarket but from the Lexus dealership

 

Bingo, or more 'sport'.

 

not really, i don't know of such option. the RSES is only on the ls460l and ls600hl?

 

Exactly. The ES, as a luxury sedan, has not sold in big numbers for nothing. The auto market has ENOUGH sport sedans. If they try to make the ES into one, it will ( literally ) kill two birds with one stone......First, by ruining the ES itself, and second, by taking sales away from its own brother IS.

 

there isnt really a car that can compete toe to toe with the ES, most cars in its range are sport sedans which the ES isnt but its a entry level lux sedan. The IS is already taking care of that

 

Well theoretically the Buick LaCrosse was meant to compete toe to toe with precisely the ES. Too bad it fell short, to even the last-gen ES.

 

I recently drove an ES350. The ride is what we've come to expect from the ES, but the straight line power was excellent. I have driven the new Avavons quite often and I actually think the ES feels slightly faster on the highway.

Road noise levels have to be the best for a car with a base price of under $40k. I couldn't even hear the engine rumble as I was punching it from 40-70. Now with that extra power, this car feels very LS like on the highway. I fully agree with the statements about this car being better than a 1st gen LS.

 

You guys don't have to read my reviews either....or take my word for it. Examine these two cars for yourselves, inside and out, and while it is true that the LaCrosse shows some fit-and-finish improvement over the Century / Regal it replaces, I would bet the monthly rent that most of you ( or a clear majority ) come up with the same conclusion I did that the ES is a far better car, even though the new ES is not quite as opulent inside as the old one.

 

I haven't seen a 5ES in motion but at the auto show, its a good looking car! Its pretty big too.

As MMarshall said, we have ENOUGH, sports sedan and POSUERS in this class, the ES is not confused, its about luxury and provides it in spades.

 

i saw two ES's so far.....a white one with the beige interior parked on my neighbors block, and looke real nice from the bak...the other was driving next to me black on black...man was that thing sexy--i never really liked how the photographs of it portrayed the ES but in person WOW!!!

 

The one I saw looked like a blue/gray color - man was it sharp.

 

lol....having second thoughts Paul??!!

 

Im seeing these things all over the place now. Past 2 days I saw 5 in a bunch of different colors. 3 or 4 of them had the UL package too.

They really look great. Classy with a little bit of sport thrown in.