chiawei

1. Who told you there won't be room? The E90 engine compartment is not small as the E46. Also the new N52 is not stretched extremely thin as you made it out to be. The final spec on the 3.5L is not out. Hence to state that the stretch is not possible is ridiculous, considering that N/A 335i is already testing in US since earlier this year.

2. BMW's own gasoline turbo will not pass the CA emission. Hence, this will not reach US shores. Period. No turbo BMW will reach this shores (except probably TDi if BMW can solve the corrision problem with sulfur US diesel). The reason why TDi can't be sold in CA has to do with amount of sulfur in the US diesel hence making it impossible to meet CA emission requirement. Plus BMW still has issues with corrision due to sulfur in the US diesel.

The new E90 L6 are receiving upgrades to the 07 model year.

The 325i is now replaced by 328i (which for US will be detuned version of current 330i 3.0 L6)
The 330i is now replaced by 335i (which will be the new 3.5 L6).

The single valvetronic 3.0L on the current 325i dies (who know may be BMW will introduce a 323i with detuned version of the 3.0L).

US version 335i and european version of 335i will be different this time around. The Euroepan will get the Bi-turbo R6 3.0 on their 335i and which will have a lot more torque than the stateside cousin (which blows in my opinion).

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

Just wondering what your source is? Not that I don't believe you, but the E90 or E92 Coupe is on the short list for my next car at the end of this year or sometime next year so I'd like to read up on all these proposed engines and such. Thanks.

SteVTEC

Well, I've heard a lot of supposed "insiders" saying all sorts of crap on the net which is why I'm skeptical of it all. On another forum there was a Toyota "insider" jumping up and down about how the new Avalon they were doing test builds of was RWD. It's nice that you're reporting this, but I tend to take it all like a grain of salt until word is out from official sources. Initial reports and rumors are notoriously inaccurate.

As for the engine, it's not nearly as simple as simple math and HP/L calcs. With a stroker motor setup, you're pulling much higher volumes of air through the heads and intake manifold at much lower RPMs, and the small amount of valve area on an engine with an 85 mm bore size will start to be come a huge bottleneck. If Honda can get 200hp out of their 2.4L "stroker" in the Acura TSX then I'm sure BMW can do the same (assuming they can get 3.5L out of the N52). It's not simple though, and you end up trading off a lot of efficiency. Friction is singificantly higher in stroker engines due to greater swept volume and also extremely high piston speeds.

According to the latest AEI mag, the 2GR-FSE makes around 350Nm of torque (258 lb-ft) at around only 2500 rpm. That's 93% at 2500 rpm, not only 85% at 2800 rpm.

http://www.sae.org/automag/techbrief...1-114-1-17.pdf

I'd like to believe you, I find some of what you say to be very questionable, and I have a lot of trouble believing a lot of what I read on the Internet these days, especially on forums like these.

chiawei

I know the a brand manager (can't disclose the series) in BMWUSA. Last i talked to him on the upcoming new L6. There was no mentioning of bringing the R6 (or N54) to US since BMW can't get the N54 cerfitifed in the states and are still having problem with US gasoline with their own turbo car. 335i or the new 535i (not sure if this will make it, since 07 5 series has been released to order in BMW system with no change in 525i, 530i, and 550i).

I know E92 press release is due within next day or so for europe.

I know for fact the europe is getting R6 (N54- the 3.0L TT L6) as press release to be released already states that.

The E92 i believe will come to US initially with current 3.0 L6 (single valvetronic with 215HP, and the more sophisiticated version 255HP).

Unless BMW has solved their problem with more acidic US fuel. I still don't buy the N54 coming to US. 335i will most likely be a version of the SLUEV II N52.

Given the fact that 5 series is not likely to get the engine upgrade since 2007 model information has been released. Perhaps, the original plan of 328i/335i has been pushed out to MY'08.

I need to to talk to my source to see what is going on.

SteVTEC

Please read again what I said. Nobody told me it wasn't possible. All I'm pointing out is that it might not be a sure thing due to different construction, casting, and materials in the new blocks, and using previous engines with 3.6/3.8 displacements with totally different construction as an example does not mean it's possible on the new engines. Iron blocks are much more tolerant when you're trying to stretch a block to the extremes than aluminum or magnesium is. i'm skeptical, and you're not feeding me anything specific enough or backed up enough to end the skepticism.


Source??

I've seen a lot of people come out and make posts just like these without any references and claiming to have "insider info" and end up being totally and completely wrong. The 325i in the US is already a detuned 3.0L also, so a 328 according to you would just be another detuned 3.0L. I also find it hard to believe that BMW would completely revamp their engine lineup in the 3-series after only 1 year on the market when they're already very competitive engines.

chiawei

Everyone know what its's not a simple calculation. But its not off by as much as you made it out to be.

The simple fact is that getting 85 HP and 75lb-ft out of 1 cubic liter of displacement is easily achievable for almost every manufacture. Look at S85 and S52 from BMW. This is easily done.

The M52 engine started out life as 80x66, but it ended life as 84X89.67. The S52-which is also another variation of the basic M52 engine, was 86.4x91.

The new 3.5L L6 could have both increase in bore and stroke. The N52 currently started at 85x88.14 with compression ratio of 10.7:1 yielding displacement of 3007cc.

To achieve 3.5 L6, we can use 90x91. Like i said is doable. N52 is new L6 engine family. To increase the bore size from 85 to 90mm is not impossible nor is increasing the stroke to 91.

The N52 is new with initial bore size of 85mm.

Where did it mention that 2GR-FSE made around 258lb-ft in the article?
There is a not really clear graph showing about 85% to 90% peak torque available between 2k and 4k RPM. I saw this graph previously and did not exactly calculate based on that graph.

The japanese 2GR-FSE has slightly more torque. And 85% to 90% is about right. Even if you take the top end of 90% *277= you are looking at most 250 lb-ft between 2k to 4k RPM based on the graph. Which, most likely will be below 335i peak torque which should arrive at sub 3k.

chiawei

The M52 which went through bore and stroke change was an aluminum block since 1994 (before the bore/stroke increase). The N52 is new generation of L6 block based on old M52 (hence the name N52).

I have pointed out that the M52/S52 has seen bore increase from a mere 80 to 86 and stroke stretch to 91mm.

So you are wrong on your claim as this is impossible.

The 3.0L in the US 325i was not a simple detuned verision of 330i's 3.0 L6, the intake manifold is different.

The 328i will be a detuned version of the 330i (in other word it will now get the 3 stage intake manifold). (I had it confused, it was the intake manifold not valvetronic). It will also meet tougher new emission.

LexFather

Last night I was reading my BMW book and well they've been offereing turbos for sometime now. Its only RECENTLY they have not.


In the 70s they offered a turbo 7 series, and called it the 745 for example. Turbo 2002s were also sold.

So this is nothing new for them.

Faraaz23

Could someone kindly explain to me the difference between an L6 and an I6 and H6? I know in the I-6, the cylinders are all in a straight line, and I believe in the H6 they are transversely mounted or something. Whats an L6?

STIG

i think it looks pretty good. what do you think?

XeroK00L

Refreshed 7 taillights. Much better than the Korean taillights on the sedan. Looks great overall from that angle too.

GFerg

So far so good.

XeroK00L

BTW, is only one of the two exhaust pipes functional?

Also, it's a 335i!!

Lvangundy

What's the hubub about?

Isn't that just like the recently redesigned 3 series?

I see turbo printed in the title..A spyshot of the possible turbo is all?

Gojirra99

Rear end much improved over the sedan, particularly the tail lights