I don't think that's quite how it works. Countries, companies, distributors want to LOCK IN their allocations of oil and the AMOUNT they lock in depends on their concerns about price and supply volatility. The competition for available capacity over the periods of time being asked for is what drives the price (at least that's the way I understand it - Lil4X can no doubt speak more knowledgeably and eloquently about this).

Let me give you an analogy. There's 3 grape growers in a valley and 10 wine makers. There's rumors the grape harvest might not be so good so each of the 10 wine makers starts outbidding the other to LOCK IN their share of available grapes. The grape growers love it because they're going to get a top price for their grapes but it's not all great because if the harvest does turn out to be lower then the net revenue (price * volume) may not be so much higher than in years of plentiful harvest.

If you don't like this market driven system - what would you propose? Every attempt at price controls hasn't worked always causing problems other than what was intended.

 

idk if any of you have watched "End of Suburbia" but if you think these gas prices are rediculous, your really in for something worse. We are almost at the International peak in oil production, predicted we peak between 2000-2010 if we haven't peaked already. This means after this peak, prices will only continue to rise. This only gets worse, factories, power (energy), and everything else in this world of suburban life we live in, is reliant on oil. Once we run out, which we eventually will, it will be the end of this lifestyle forever.

You may say ethanol will take over, however it takes twice the energy to produce, and as most of us know, it needs to flow alot more to make the same amount of power in an engine. Power/electricity is another major concern. Nuclear power is too expensive to create. Us Americans have ALWAYS been paying less than many of the big countries around us. We pay almost 3x less than japan and uk. Always paid less than canada, all european countries, etc. We should be grateful, but it TRULY is all these *******s in these big suv's that are the cause of this problem. Suv sales have nearly tripled from 2000 to 2005. Cars are still at a steady rate. The national mpg rate is rapidly declining due to the number of suv's on the road. Way to go all you yuppie suburan life living *******s. Most people arent even aware of this major problem.

 

The end of oil or some kind of 'peak' has been predicted for decades and decades and each time it comes and goes, and it doesn't turn out to be a peak. But I do agree the demand will begin to significantly outstrip supply as millions of new vehicles end up on the roads in China and India in particular.

Not sure where that comes from, but even if true today it may not be true if/when oil prices sky rocket.

That's due to TAXES though, nothing to do with oil supply or prices.

So what do you propose to decrease America's appetite for SUVs? Increase taxes on gasoline? Impose more 'gas guzzler' taxes to 'incent' people to drive smaller vehicles or hybrids?

Do you believe there are any legitimate customers for SUVs? Obviously there's a demand given how well they've done, but do you believe the demand was more a fad than a real need?

America's always loved big vehicles. The huge gas guzzling sedans of the past have simply been replaced by SUVs which are actually FAR more efficient.

But we can debate whether people 'need' these vehicles or not. I've lived in the UK where most people can't afford gas for a large vehicle or don't have a garage and can't park a large vehicle on the street or even in public parking lots. Is that what you want?

 

For those who missed it, here's the gas thread from last week over in the Clubhouse forum.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=207353

 

bitkahuna, i dont want to live on small streets with no cars, but this is what is GOING to happen. this isnt a speculation or a conspiracy, this is going to happen. please watch "end of suburbia" it may change your views on the nature of the concern. gas was cheap back then because it was plentiful, america peaked in the 70's. after that, the CAFE laws raised mpg minimums. They continued to raise until the SUV trend. Just recently they upped the minimum again (which is a good thing). But this is only a temporary fix. We WILL run out of oil in the near future (predicted 2020) but as of now, gas prices will steadily increase and once we peak, the prices won't ever go back down, just up. I know the prices are taxed in other countries, thats why I'm saying, be thankful that we do not have to pay as much. I know that maybe 10% of suv owners actually need them. My information is not an opinion, in the documentary, where 10+ scientists including ones in the oil business themselves, agree with this prediction. This is not some outrageous claim that I am making, but a claim of highly intelligent professionals. Please watch the movie, its worth the time. And actually, I propose no plan at all, I'm simply informing of the problem. Fuel efficient SUV's have little effect on gas consumption. Annual sales of the large SUV have gone from 32,000/year in '95 to 550,000/year in '04, and that number continues to rise exponentially. The cars may be getting cleaner, but people are driving more. We are at roughly 3 trillion miles traveled per year. Up from 2 trillion miles in 1990. This only helps advance the peak. There is no solution to this problem other than increased gas prices. Americans will not stop consuming gas at rediculous rates because they don't care, and/or are uninformed of this problem. I am a contradiction in myself, but that means nothing. I get 8-12mpg when I rip on my car (which I do alot :P) and am not helping conserve gas in any way. But the fact is that prices increase with war, as they do with this rising number of SUV's on the road. We may be forced into living in small streets with no parking, as long distance commutes will no longer be possible.

 

For all of us "enthusiasts" that love to drive our cars, you WANT gas to keep going up. First of all, I live in Los Angeles and there are just too many cars... we have a crap public transportation system and carpooling just doesnt work for most of us. Additionally we have a lot of dumb drivers here, especially the monsterous SUV's all over the place that make it impossible for normal cars to see anything on the streets.

At some point, the rising prices will force people to drive less or to move to smaller fuel efficient cars. This will benefit CL-type people in a few ways. First it will reduce the number of idiots drivers, because people will begin to drive for necessity and ultimately reduce the number of cars on the road. Next, you will begin to see less SUV's (Hummers, Suburbans, Yukons, etc etc) which means more visibility on the street and the less instances of that SUV taking up two parking spots in the parking lot.

Finally, rising gas prices will force everyone to conserve and realize that energy conservation is a very important issue. America is so wasteful with energy that its really pathetic. A few years back we had rolling black outs to conserve electrical energy. But downtown LA offices would remain lit-up all night every night... Many people have commented that the cause for the price increases is due to oil barons, political agendas, commodities speculation, but its really because we consume so much. If I was a oil company and I knew that people would pay $3+ for a gallon of gas, Id keep raising prices too...

At the end of the day, if we all continue to whine and complain about gas prices but STILL continue to purchase it, nothing is going to happen. Find ways to conserve energy and consume less and prices will eventually drop. America really is addicted to oil, and OPEC is our dealer...

 

Twizzle brings up a good point: What is the rising price of fuel doing to the American landscape? First, I believe it is causing many people to re-examine their daily commute. Since the '50's, we've tended to live in bedroom communities and commute to central "office" districtss. That was fine - especially in a manufacturing business, where you had to go where the machines were. Today, much of our work is in the service sector, we talk on the phone and pound a keyboard for a living - yet we still commute from our comfortable homes to a central office. If you are fortunate enough to have a functional carpool commuter system and/or mast transit, you are well and truly blessed - but you still haven't addressed the root of the problem. Whether we select carpools, mass transit, or a highly fuel-efficient commuter car, we can attack fhe problem simply on the basis of cost reduction, but there's a better way.

There is another option - cutting cost by reducing mileage. For some that means moving near your work, back from suburbia to an urban high-rise, and while that's a good long-term solution, it is expensive. It's also highly speculative in terms of the highly fluid job situation today. There once was a time you graduated college and worked for one employer in one location for the next 40 years - but that time has passed. Now, if you've been on the job two years, you're considered an OG. With the expectation of changing jobs - either to take advantage of better opportunities, or being "downsized" out of a current position, or even if your job remains the same, but your company relocates, it's probably not wise to purchase a home near your place of employment. Too many things can change.

Technology has provided a third option: telecommuting. Thanks to developments in teleconferencing and the internet, most of us have jobs that don't absolutely require that we all come to a central point every day in order to accomplish our daily work. Employers are beginning to break the old habit of having to SEE their employees hunched over their desks in their cubes every day. For many employers, It's no longer cost-effective to furnish office space, common areas, parking, and for many employees, a company vehicle - just to be able to see their shining faces every morning.

As business owners become more comfortable with communication and conferencing via phone, internet, and wireless media, look for more companies to embrace telecommuting from home offices for many - if not all employees. As an example - I worked for a company for some ten years, driving to a prestigious westside high-rise address, to work in a plush suite of offices with the requisite large walnut and glass conference room, kitchen, and marble trimmed reception area - when it eventually dawned on me that we were spending a TON of money every month for a place for five people to work. We had no walk-in trade, and only about a third or fewer of our client meetings were held in our offices. From a cost standpoint, we were insane!

Today, we have no central "office", our loose confederation of independent businessmen and women work from our homes, communicate via e-mail and our telephone, exchange large data files bia our ftp server, and call on clients in THEIR expensive offices. With a decent laptop and a good Wi-fi link, I can do probably 60 percent of my regular "office" work in a quiet corner of a client's office or in my car. By eliminating the "office" from the corporate landscape, we've boosted efficiency and cut costs.

• My commute that took 45 minutes each way is reduced to six seconds to a minute, depending on whether I stop in the kitchen for coffee on the way. I gain about 90 minutes of productivity every day, plus lunch with my wife is cheaper, healthier, and a nice change from the fast dash to the crowded local "squat and gobble" sandwich shop near the office.
  
  
• I can go in to work early, stay late, and even wake up in the middle of the night with a good idea - and DO it while still in my bathrobe. Next morning, I can usually treat myself to an extra hour's sleep, thanks to the "night shift's" work..
  
  
• By setting aside two days a week for client calls on the road, I can spend most days at work in jeans and a t-shirt, rather than in the corporate suit and tie. The savings in dry cleaning and wardrobe costs alone can be staggering.
  
  
• I've cut my auto mileage by half, despite travelling farther to see clients. Auto expenses are down too. Gas, maintenance, everything. The savings on my blood pressure is a welcome bonus.
  
  
• Of course I miss the camaraderie of the office, but it pays off in efficiency, and my associates and I can still get together for coffee, a drink, or a meal when it suits our schedules.

Do I still have to respond to emergencies? Of course - I have to get up, shower and dress every morning - and have my "work clothes" at the ready in case a client needs to see me. I can be standing in his office in roughly the same time it would have taken me to drive from my conventional office.

There are downsides too – If the washer quits or a toilet backs up, I’m still the fixit guy – and I’m a lot closer to the scene of the domestic problem. I have to keep my daughter off the phone with her boyfriend during business hours, and when the family’s out, the dog knows where my office is, and that she can come paw at me for a biscuit. It takes discipline to stay on task.

But it DOES neatly solve the need to burn vast quantities of time and fossil fuels just to put in appearance at a central “workplace”. Now, I have to shave and go to work!