doug_999

If the TL had a AWD option for $2K, they would sell an additional 2,000 per year. They would also eat into their RL sales, but let's be honest here guys, nothing touches the TL when you consider price and content. Acura/Honda has proven they can do it - at least with the TL and sort of with the MDX. I am betting the new MDX is amazing.

nthach

Despite it's age, the MZ will be around for a few more years, at least in the Camry, Sienna, and Solara, unless Toyota adapts the GR into the above cars. The Honda J and C series V6s don't drive like the stereotypical gutless Honda motor - but I feel the Toyota V6s have smoother power delivery. I think Honda is just depending too much on stuff like VTEC and proving that they are the most technologically advanced car company in the world. As much as I like some Honda products like the Pilot and the Odyssey, they need to get with the program. Start offering V8s, even if you have to team up with Toyota or Nissan to make one. Make engines with MORE torque. Make better transmissions. And Acura might have to reinvent their brand image.

nthach

Not to take this thread off topic, but I think Honda should look into how the fashion industry creates their sister brands and make them into a profitable model. I can name a few examples. Honda should follow that as a model. Everyone knows Honda's good at making economical and reliable commuter cars like the Civic and Accord. But when it comes to stuff like SUVs, vans and luxury cars, they can be beat. Look at the Odyssey, the new one is now being outsold by the the Sienna - even though the Sienna has a smaller engine and it's a bit smaller. You don't see many RidgeLines out there, when you can buy a equivalent GM or Ford product like one poster said. And I see more Highlanders and Explorers on the road than Pilots.

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

Well, when you bring a 6 shot into an arena where everyone else is toting a glock, you're gonna lose. They want a market where $40k+ cars rule and all wear RWD V8s or bigger. It won't matter if you have the most technologically advanced car (I think the voice recog NAV in the Accord/TL is the best of the best) but they need a flagship vehicle priced much higher. The prestige of that car will trickle down and influence your other lower priced models. Would Lexus have had any success with the ES if the LS was a total bomb? No way. Infinit has suffered because they still haven't found the right formula for their flagship, the Q. Flagship models fight in the ring with the big boys and all the big boys carry RWD V8s.

They need to incorporate that V10 into the next RL or Legend or whatever they want to call it. Develop a good 7 speed auto tranny, wrap it up in a strong powerful RWD designed sedan and sell it for about $60k. I also agree, they need to leave the RSX and TSX to Honda and start with the TL on up. It would be a phenomenal 1-2 punch for Acura to have a V10 Luxo-barg sedan and a V10 sports car leading their lineup.

mmarshall

In the short run, I agree this would be good policy for Honda, but perhaps they are looking further down the road. Gas prices in the long run are eventually going to kill off a lot of the big V8 / rear-drive market, although V8 hybrid technology might allow some performance with better mileage.
I just don't see any other way around it in the long run. Gas prices are pretty stable right now but the inevitable worldwide demand for gas, especially in rapidly-growing Asian markets, combined with the political and technical difficulties in finding and drilling new sources, is going to give us expensive gas in the future. I'm all increasing gas production my self but there are many obstacles with it.

doug_999

I'm not sure where you got your numbers, but here in America, the Pilot outsold the Highlander last year and the Odyssey outsold the Sienna. The Explorer having a terrible year outsold all of them as it has since it came out.

Also, seems to me that the Pilot and Odyssey have been on C&Ds 10 best list for some time.

So I think Honda is doing just fine in those market segments - in fact, you could say they lead them from an import standpoint.

rogers2

At this moment I don’t know what to say to the Acura exec. Maybe just hurry up and bring out the new NSX. Most likely I’ll have to take out an equity loan for the car but I got have it. Everybody knows Acura need to make an rwd vehicles but it’s obvious they are stubborn. So until they do they will always be an afterthought when people are looking for a luxury sedan.

ST430

Hmm with the upcoming Chicago show, Lexus will show off the new 07' ES350 while Toyco will debut the next Tundra. What does Honda have up their sleeves? A Civic SEDAN SI! O.o Things just don't make sense at Honda anymore.

What's even more disturbing is the 06' Accord Hybrid which now has revised-for-'06 25/34mpg figure from it's 30city/37 highway rating of a year before. Why?

According to VTEC.NET:

"Well, if you read the earlier press release on the '06 Accord Hybrid's pricing, you may have noticed that this year's model has been enhanced with the addition of a moonroof and a compact spare tire (vs a can of Fix-A-Flat, a glove, and a small 12V compressor that the '05 model shipped with). These two items and a few minor detail changes resulted in an increase in curb weight of 88lbs (up to 3589 lbs from 3501 lbs). Guess what? According to a font of knowledge over at American Honda with whom I spoke earlier today, this weight gain pushed the Accord into another EPA class, which means it had to be retested using a different set of EPA laboratory test parameters. The result is a noticeable ding in the mileage figures posted on the window sticker, but fear not, real world mileage figures will likely be very similar between the '05 and '06 models."

WTF! LOL! Someone needs to get shot at Honda for that marketing / engineering snafu.....

Och

iTrader: (3)

Honda got majorly bitsch-slapped at their own game. I predict very difficult times for honda by 2008.

Iceman

This is of course all personal opinion, but I think most of you have it wrong when you insist Acura must bring out a V8, RWD, and a more luxurious flagship. That would be true if you were trying to clone Lexus. But just look at the press releases themselves--the Acura brass EXPLICITLY say they are not chasing Lexus. That train has left the station, folks. As some here have correctly pointed out, Acura would have a HELL of a time trying to go head-to-head with Lexus. They've simply fallen too far. As 1SickLex often points out, there are really only three luxury car companies in the U.S. today: BMW, M-B, and Lexus. Audi, Infiniti, Acura, Saab, Volvo... they're all second-tier. Even Jaguar has squandered their market position to where, as a model line, they no longer have the prestige and respect of the "big three".

Acura is kicking serious booty in the value-priced near- or entry-luxury segment, however. Their cars perform well, offer unbeatable arrays of features (that actually work, as compared to the Germans), are handsomely styled, offer a luxury-car warranty, and are sold in upscale dealerships with better-than-average customer service. The TL, TSX, and MDX are undisputably successes in their market segments. The RSX does respectably well and brings in lots of profits to Acura and their dealer network. The NSX is still legendary 15 years after introduction. And while they hoped for more sales and "buzz" from the RL, it's still an amazing car that sells worlds better than its predecessor.

YOU may want Acura to go in a different direction, and may be puzzled when they stubbornly refuse to do what you think are obvious changes, but if you take that bias away that Acura has to be just like Lexus then their strategy makes perfect sense.

LexFather

Iceman, looking at the press release, Acura wants to be viewed the way we view the competiton. Thing is Acura refuses to make the product. They want us to recognize them as a true luxury brand but they refuse to make true luxury.

So in summary, Acura knows they are not true luxury, they want us to believe that, they refuse to make the product. Then to make things worse, the competiton continues to make better products, more powerful, more luxurious.

Your right, they are good at the value luxury brand, the oxymoron that is.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, but did you read all the comments in this thread? Statistics show that Acuras are cross selling with Hondas, so while this is true that they sell very well, if they would cease to exist, it would just mean more sales to Honda.

Honda might as well just bring existing Acuras to the Honda name, because all of them are just rebadges anyway. Release Civic EX-L (RSX), Accord EX-L (TSX, TL), and make some sort of Avalon competitor with the RL.

doug_999

Yes, cause Lexus has no cross selling going on whatsoever right? Tell me that the new Avalon is not cross shopped with the ES?

LexFather

What the press release said is teh TL is MOST car shopped with the Accord. I am sure the ES and Camry and Avalon are cross-shopped and I am sure those cars are cross shopped with the TL.

But I doubt the majority of ES buyers cross shops with the Camry

Incendiary

I wonder if they should follow what a previous poster suggested. How would this play out?

Honda - economy cars like Fit, Civic, Accord, Odyssey, Ridgeline, Pilot, Element, CR-V
Acura - sports line, all sporty coupes/roadsters like NSX, S2000, Legend coupe, and RSX for the young crowd

I don't know where that leaves middle-tier luxury vehicles like the MDX, upcoming RD-X, TL, and TSX, though...