Toyota questions hybrid approach
08-09-05, 02:24 PM
#1
Speaks French in Russian
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Toyota questions hybrid approach
Toyota’s chief engineer for product planning Shigeyuki Hori has doubts about the future success of hybrids. His point of view comes from watching the Japanese market react to the Lexus RX (Harrier in Japan) and Highlander (Kluger) hybrids. Hori believes that the poor sales of the new hybrids was due to the nearly 20 percent premium customers would have to pay for the ‘big electric appliance.’ For hybrids, the cost factor is always going to be a problem, and Toyota is beginning to worry that investing in both hybrid and normal gasoline/diesel powertrains for the same model will not pay off. Hori sees that Toyota would need to develop hybrid models that are unique, vehicles without a normal equivalent, in order for the hybrid to be successful.
Hori has a good point. Look at the Prius. It is essentially an economy car, if there was a non-hybrid Prius it would probably cost between 16-18k. If consumers were to see the price difference between a hybrid and a non-hybrid, then they may be less likely to choose the hybrid. We’re also not sure about comparing the Japanese market to the American market. The hybrid SUVs and Camry will meet with some success, simply because we are less price sensitive and hybrids are becoming a sort of status symbol for many.
Hori has a good point. Look at the Prius. It is essentially an economy car, if there was a non-hybrid Prius it would probably cost between 16-18k. If consumers were to see the price difference between a hybrid and a non-hybrid, then they may be less likely to choose the hybrid. We’re also not sure about comparing the Japanese market to the American market. The hybrid SUVs and Camry will meet with some success, simply because we are less price sensitive and hybrids are becoming a sort of status symbol for many.
Last edited by magneto112; 08-09-05 at 02:29 PM.
08-09-05, 02:28 PM
#2
Speaks French in Russian
Thread Starter
Which in turn relates to our previous thread that RX400h customers arent happy enough because it looks like a regualr RX330. If you drive something totally different from the regular car then you have every right for it to stand out from the crowd.
I wish then luck and hopefully in the future Toyo/Lex wont have a big problem.
I wish then luck and hopefully in the future Toyo/Lex wont have a big problem.
08-09-05, 02:40 PM
#3
More dramatic is the way to go, including special labeling for hybrids such as the RX 400h and GS 450h...why not special colors, also 'hybrid' titles on the sides and aft.
If I were Toyota I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket, namely hybrid tech, but also be at the forefront of hydrogen, fuel cell etc if those pan out.
If I were Toyota I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket, namely hybrid tech, but also be at the forefront of hydrogen, fuel cell etc if those pan out.
08-09-05, 04:13 PM
#5
Pole Position
I think this statement only refered to Japaniese market.
Toyota is integrating hybrid system into regular production models so customers would accept it and get used on it. It's like diesel and petrol situation. I think that's what Toyota is aiming for, to bring the third alternative straight into the battle worldwide rather than making niche market out of it.
There is no reason to make "hybrid models only" in the future. It makes sense now to show off the technology but not in 10 years or so.
Toyota is integrating hybrid system into regular production models so customers would accept it and get used on it. It's like diesel and petrol situation. I think that's what Toyota is aiming for, to bring the third alternative straight into the battle worldwide rather than making niche market out of it.
There is no reason to make "hybrid models only" in the future. It makes sense now to show off the technology but not in 10 years or so.
08-09-05, 04:34 PM
#6
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Its a concern and a good one. With gas prices still going up (Oil hit ANOTHEr record high today) and hybrid technology improving, things will be alright.
Toyota is already at maximum capacity for all hybrids.
Its a TOUGH market to figure things out since NO ONE has done it before. This is a rare, newly untapped market. They are learning, hence the other article of people wanting to let others know "yes, this is hybrid"
I tsaid before in a thread here, part of owning a hybrid, is the PRESTIGE and ORIGINALITY of it. People like the fact, even if its only 5mpg more, its MORE than you. And the hybrids COST more.
Hollywood loves hybrids, which is a good, b/c the ripple effect will mean people love them.
The next step is the GS 450h which will become the next IT CAR for celebrities and the rich. They cannot wait to talk about the fact "hey, I own a rare and the first hybrid Lexus sedan".
Watch.
Toyota is already at maximum capacity for all hybrids.
Its a TOUGH market to figure things out since NO ONE has done it before. This is a rare, newly untapped market. They are learning, hence the other article of people wanting to let others know "yes, this is hybrid"
I tsaid before in a thread here, part of owning a hybrid, is the PRESTIGE and ORIGINALITY of it. People like the fact, even if its only 5mpg more, its MORE than you. And the hybrids COST more.
Hollywood loves hybrids, which is a good, b/c the ripple effect will mean people love them.
The next step is the GS 450h which will become the next IT CAR for celebrities and the rich. They cannot wait to talk about the fact "hey, I own a rare and the first hybrid Lexus sedan".
Watch.
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08-09-05, 04:52 PM
#8
Lexus Connoisseur
Yeah 2005 RX330 production bulk shifted over to the Cambridge Ontario Canada plant due to the ramp up of production of the RX400h from the Kyushu, Japan plant. If you go to any Lexus dealer in the United States and Canada, you will probably see the only Japanese made RX's are the the hybrids. If you do have an 05 RX330 that was made after April, chances are it's made in Canada. If you have an 05 Thundercloud Edition, that's strictly made in the Kyushu plant.
08-09-05, 06:59 PM
#10
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Reading a Forbes in the doctors office and they pointed out that if all cars were hybrids TODAY, it would mean nothing in 6 years because they only get 25% better mpg and with the increased driving we will be doing in 6 years, we will be right back where we were. Something more dramatic has to be done.
08-09-05, 07:15 PM
#11
Yeah, I think Toyota would be able to match its most optimistic estimates IF it focused on making hybrids about economy and less about performance...however, for instance, the hybrid Camry has been announced as focusing on performance, just as the RX 400h and GS450h have been. Now, for luxury cars, I can sort of understand hybrid performance....
...but for the regular market I'm disappointed that hybrid technology is not as environmentally and economically friendly as possible. Methinks Toyota doesn't want to hurt the other 75% of the market for non-hybrids, as perhaps the warranties for hybrid batteries, etc...do not justify making the 'superhybrid' which is truly fuel efficient to the point that it outweighs the hybrid purchase premium. Plus there's the matter of competing with other manufacturers that are behind in the hybrid wars.
Sadly, the corporate economic situation seems not to favor the creation of a hybrid product that is best for the consumer economic situation. But can you imagine...
...a luxury hybrid that truly sips gas, performs AT the same level as non-hybrids, but uses LESS gas? a 50 mpg Lexus? The ultimate luxury convenience.
...or a Toyota Camry with the mpg of a Honda Civic? Imagine what that would do to our oil consumption...not to mention the family checkbook.
If such a 'superhybrid' were introduced, thousands would flock to Toyota and the other carmakers would lose big time...
But at least they're offering some type of hybrid car, going back to the tradition of fuel economy which for Lexus began with their very first model, the LS 400 which was the first imported production V8 to avoid the gas guzzler tax.
...but for the regular market I'm disappointed that hybrid technology is not as environmentally and economically friendly as possible. Methinks Toyota doesn't want to hurt the other 75% of the market for non-hybrids, as perhaps the warranties for hybrid batteries, etc...do not justify making the 'superhybrid' which is truly fuel efficient to the point that it outweighs the hybrid purchase premium. Plus there's the matter of competing with other manufacturers that are behind in the hybrid wars.
Sadly, the corporate economic situation seems not to favor the creation of a hybrid product that is best for the consumer economic situation. But can you imagine...
...a luxury hybrid that truly sips gas, performs AT the same level as non-hybrids, but uses LESS gas? a 50 mpg Lexus? The ultimate luxury convenience.
...or a Toyota Camry with the mpg of a Honda Civic? Imagine what that would do to our oil consumption...not to mention the family checkbook.
If such a 'superhybrid' were introduced, thousands would flock to Toyota and the other carmakers would lose big time...
But at least they're offering some type of hybrid car, going back to the tradition of fuel economy which for Lexus began with their very first model, the LS 400 which was the first imported production V8 to avoid the gas guzzler tax.
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